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RICE FIELD BANDIT ;D let me go....i can call.
Re: RICE FIELD BANDIT "
[quote author=HITMAN link=board=duckcalling&num=1006901513&start=0#0 date=11/27/01 at 17:51:53]
;D let me go....i can call.

[/quote]

Yeah, maybe you can, but the smell would have them ducks high tailing it out of the country.  " Re: RICE FIELD BANDIT "You got that right, especially if the HITMAN had been hitting that plate at Jerry's the night before..  ::)  Whew..." Will Re: RICE FIELD BANDIT "
[quote author=Will link=board=duckcalling&num=1006901513&start=0#2 date=11/28/01 at 15:54:14]
You got that right, especially if the HITMAN had been hitting that plate at Jerry's the night before..  ::)  Whew...
[/quote]
[b]Will he race them cars.... 8)[/b]
[move]ha ha ha ha hah[/move]" Re: RICE FIELD BANDIT "
[quote author=Jason link=board=duckcalling&num=1006901513&start=0#1 date=11/28/01 at 15:16:44]


Yeah, maybe you can, but the smell would have them ducks high tailing it out of the country.  
[/quote]

:-X  jason give me a business card, fool.  i cannot spread the word w/out some propaganda. :P
[glow=red,2,300]what i look like?  booboo the foo?[/glow]" Sad News "My Golden Retriever "Beau" passed away Friday.  At 13 years old, he wasn't much of a hunting dog anymore but he sure will be missed.

[img]http://www.missmallard.com/images/beau-n-shelby.jpg[/img]" Re: Sad News Sorry to hear about your dog Jason...
can you read this Will? no message. Re: can you read this Will? I see very clearly now.  8) Rest Areas "Is it just me or does everyone think DU and other waterfowl organizations may be going to the extreme. It is my personal opinion that we may have been infiltrated by a tree hugger mentality. I have noticed in my brief 10 years of waterfowling that every year we in Arkansas have some new project to conserve habitat, don't get me wrong I believe we must save the wetlands, but creating more and more rest areas and other non-huntable areas has killed our hunting and more than that it is changing the flyway. Every new generation of bird learn these SAFE AREAS and never venture out of them from rest area to rest area, from Minn.-La. Just had to get it off my chest, and feel free to get it off yours, I want your thoughts.

And also with as many private clubs creating rest areas it is becoming impossible for the little man

" Re: Rest Areas "Jughead,
  I hear ya man, they keep protectin em so much, pretty soon we won't be able to shoot!!! The really need to open these areas on a rotating basis, to keep em wild and moving!

Mudhole
OutdoorsLouisiana.com" Re: Rest Areas "I think that shortstopping is not only due to the refuges, but equally the agricultural implications that allow birds to feed as long as they can get to the grains available. There are calender migrators that didn't show up in TX and Louisiana like they u" Single Reeds Vs. Doubles "Which one do you guys use,  Singles are all you need.  But, I was curious to how many of you still used the double pacifiers?" Re: Single Reeds Vs. Doubles "Thems fightin words Jug!

I like a single reed myself, but I'll make a dub without prejudice.  My take is:  If it makes ducks work for you, It must be the right setup." Re: Single Reeds Vs. Doubles "i've never made a dub, but what can you do with a double that a halfway accomplished caller can't with a single, plus have the extra range of volumn in that single" call insert question "Jason, I started trying to make a few calls lately and ran through your tutorial. I'm having trouble getting the bore hole in the stopper perfectly aligned so that the tone channel is not too shallow or deep when it is cut in the jig.  I'm using about the same method for holding the stopper except I'm using a 4 jaw chuck instead of screwing it on a faceplate. It looked like in your tutorial pic where the stopper is in the jig that the bore hole had been drilled all the way through, but in subsequent pics shaping the stopper it appears not to be.  Anyway, I'd appreciate any tips on keeping the right alignment.  Also, how do you rough shape your stopper in the jig without altering the wooden jig in the process.  Thanks, and you have a great looking website. " Re: call insert question "Since the pictures were taken for the tutorial, I have upgraded my equipment and am also using a 4 jaw chuck instead of the faceplate.  It is critical that the wood is held securely in the chuck...no wiggle whatsoever.

Use a sharp brad point or pil" Re: call insert question "It helped me when i asked the same question to jason and a guy named Bob Mejo.  They both told me, once I got the insert drilled to take my bit out of the drill and place it in the hole and test for a little wiggle,  If you hole is off center a little make sure you put the the off-centered part on the down side of your jig, because it is better to have the hole deeper rather than to the L/R.  If you don't understand what I'm talking about please call me @1-800-825-1612 and ask for Jarrod" Re: call insert question "Thanks guys, I have only made two inserts so far and in both the tone channels were a bit shallow and had to be deepened after I had cut out the insert.  Until I find the best way to get the hole precisely centered, I will put a 1/4 steel rod in the drill hole to check for any "lean" before cutting it in a jig.  That way I can mark it so the deep side will be down.  I've got a couple of ideas I'm going to try that may guarantee true sound channels everytime.  If they work I'll repost and let you know.  Thanks again. " Re: call insert question "Quonk,  Hows the call situation?  hope the info helped on your insert drilling." Re: call insert question "Going good.  I've bored and turned a few more, but haven't cut them yet.  I'm working on a jig for cutting them out.  I'm too stubborn and tight to pay a machine shop $200+.  If it works out the way I hope, my only expense will be the heat treating for hardness, unless I can figure that out too.

The last few inserts I've turned seem to have pretty true bore holes. I've been turning them with the 4-jaw chuck." Re: call insert question "All the better for you if you can fabricate the jig by yourself.  No one knows better than you what you want.  I hate to have to buy something that I might be able to make or fix myself.  

As much as I hate to admit it, metalworking is out of my league.  " Where are the ducks??? "Where are all of the ducks?  I've talked with folks all over the country recently (not just the south!) and everyone seems to be saying the same thing.  "Hope this cold weather up north pushes some birds down."

I've just about forgotten what a mallard looks like.  If something doesn't change soon, I'm going to start designing a "super duper triple reed shoveler call"   ;D" Re: Where are the ducks??? "I hope they show up also, Saturday I hunted a rice field from 6:30 till 10:00, a diff. Rice field from 11:00-1:00, Flooded timber from 1:30-4:00, and a 3rd rice field from 4:00 till dark, and I never fired a shot, all this within a 20 mile radius of Stuttgart.  2 Guys killed 2 birds in the 3rd rice field before I got there.  Sunday I hunted a flooded bean field until  11:00 and never shot, had 2 groups of Pintails work our setup, but never got within 45-50 yards" Re: Where are the ducks??? "I just got an update from someone who hunted one of our fields yesterday.  The water has finally fallen to a good level and the ducks are moving in.  As I understand, about 10,000 birds on the rice field behind the blind.  Trouble is, that particular field is not leased and is kept as a rest area.  What do you think of rest areas Jughead?  ;D

Now, If I can just get away from work for a few days..." Jason Re: Where are the ducks??? "I am not a fan of reat areas at all, unless the club or land owner will make the birds get up at least once a day, with the increases in numbers of rest areas all the way down the flyway, new generations of birds never vary off the rest area to rest area migration.  WE are changing the flyway by providing countless numbers of sanctuaries" Re: Where are the ducks??? "I know this is an old post, but I just registered and I like talkin ducks, so here's my .02.  Around here, there are no hunting clubs and I for one am glad.   A guy shouldn't have to fork out his hard earned money to be able to hunt pristine ground.  Unfortunately, I know a lot of places are that way (especially in your neck of the woods).  I also like rest areas (refuges).  Without em, it would just be total harassment.  This year, our reservoir never got a push of geese due to the horrid hot weather, therefore, very few birds left the refuge because the food was there all winter.  We still bagged some honks, but we had to work super hard for em.  That's the breaks, I sure would like to hunt down there in mallard haven someday, I just don't want to pay a guide, I don't reckon a guy could freelance down there. ;) ;)

Matt" Re: Where are the ducks??? I know we dident see any ducks this year till late in the season. I live in ne Ohio and the only honkers I killed were during the early season I limited out every day(limit is 10) other than that I killed too many wood ducks and blacks. I was down in arkansass in the end of feb begining of march beaver trapping and saw alot of ducks I wish it was earlier in the season. is everyone afraid to talk? "If your lookin' at these post your bound to have some opinion so speak up, I promise I won't hack your computer and crash it." Re: is everyone afraid to talk? "Jason told me something like that, right before my computer caught on fire...  ???" Re: is everyone afraid to talk? :-*
just write WILL a speeding ticket for over use of the board.
he will give it up right away.

Re: is everyone afraid to talk? "Heh, heh, Hitman is gonna race them cars....

I heard you playin' your Run Dmc tape real loud this morning when you pulled up. I think you have that AC/DC undershirt on too... You are somethin', FEEV.  ::)
" Re: is everyone afraid to talk? "It was Beastie Boys and Run DMC tapes melting on my dash, while I was cutting a hole in the rear deck of my '80 model LeMans to fit a 8" Kicker Solo Baric, on a hot July saturday afternoon. Could you hand me them tin snips, thanks!  Ahh Mt. Dew!" DaMerlok Re: is everyone afraid to talk? hurr me well.  hack...i got the "stand" watchin this very minute.  what up w/ this foo setup...we got to get out and do some steppin to this show.
wait i will be back w/ beetlejuice sooons Re: is everyone afraid to talk? thanks jughead....please don't hack.  
i got a few guys that are watching you as we speak.
if you think its them....just ask them....they don't know nothin' bout that.

seriously...  i got to be gone in 1 24 hrs. Jig question "Can you give some insight into how you made your wooden jig....this is something I might try to do, at least to start with
thanks" Re: Jig question "I made several calls without a jig to begin with.  When I finally found the sound that I was looking for, I made the jig from the toneboard I wanted to duplicate.  (That toneboard went into the call I numbered #1 which I hunted with for three se" Toneboard help... "I'm trying my hand at call making. I've completed turning both the barrel and the insert. It looks great but the sound leaves something to be desired. At first, no amount of air could elicit a sound but I filed on the toneboard and reamed out the exhaust hole and got a higher pitched sound that requires substantial air. I haven't tinkered with the reed length. Could manipulating the reed length get the raspier duck sound I'm looking for or would boring out the exhaust end of the insert more possibly help? Thanks for your assistance." Re: Toneboard help... That's a hard question to answer without a little more information.  You say that it requires a substantial amount of air...do you mean that the air is blowing under the reed without moving the reed?  A shorter tone channel might correct this pr Re: Toneboard help... "Thank you for your reply Jason. I appreciate any feedback I can get! Since I posted last, I opened the exhaust of the insert and changed my reed length (lengthened it). I am now able to get a raspier low pitch sound but it still takes some air to sustain a feed call. I'm still learning through trial and error. I appreciate your help!" cork "Would appreciate some pointers on finding the right kind of cork for call inserts.  I'm looking for some high density stuff about 3/16th inch.  I have some rubberized cork from an auto parts store that is OK, but wrong thickness.  Also some regular cork from a hobby shop, but it is too coarse and crumbles easily.  The cork companies I have found so far sell it only in huge rolls." Re: cork look here:
http://www.hutproducts.com

I think they have the size that you need. Re: cork "If you have a local hobby store with HO scale train sets, I've used the cork that is designed for the bed of the train track and have been extremely pleased.  Cork appears to be somewhat rubberized so it doesn't crumble at all!  Good luck." Re: cork "I find if the cork is a little too big, I simply sand down on a flat surface until I get the desired fit. True custom fit!  " Re: cork "I use rubberized cork valve cover gaskets.  Youll have to dig through some of then, but usually the ones that fit a small block chevy are think enough.  They also make a Hi-Perf VC Gasket for the more common race motors that are 2x as thick.
Wade
" Toneboard curvature "In an earlier post regarding toneboard help, you mentioned that the toneboard should always be curving, starting at the reedseat.  I assume the reedseat to mean where the reed is secured in the notch by the cork.  If my above assumption is true, doesn't the curvature of the toneboard affect the radius of the tone channel on the toneboard?  I always thought the radius of the tone channel needed to be consistent throughout the tone board.  This could help explain problems I'm having.  Thanks for your time and help. ???" Re: Toneboard curvature [img]http://www.missmallard.com/images/insert-img.jpg[/img]

Starting at the reedseat (red) the curvature of the toneboard (yellow) should have no significant flat spots in it.  The sounding surface of the toneboard (blue) should be perfectly flat.< Re: Toneboard curvature " :) Thank you so much for your help.  And yes, your thoughts about tone channel depth is what I was calling the radius.  I truly appreciate your help.  Can't wait to see how this helps my stoppers! ;D" Brass Band Where do you get or what do you use for your Brass Bands? Re: Brass Band "I think hutproducts.com and some others sell them ready to go.  If you're cheap like me buy some 1 1/4" brass tubing from onlinemetals.com or other supplier (I like the .040 thickness best).  Make a wooden mandrel that will fit inside a 6-12 inch piece of the tubing, stick in on your lathe, and cut off any width rings you want with a metal cutoff tool of some sort." Re: Brass Band Thanks for the reply...I'll try that. Re: Brass Band "I buy my brass from onlinemetals.com as tubing.  I have been cutting the bands with a heavy duty pipe cutter which works fine, but it does leave a burr around the rim of the band which needs to be sanded off before being used.

Quonk, I like your idea about using a mandrel and cutting it on the lathe.  I'm going to try it when I run out of bands that I have already cut." Re: Brass Band "Quonk, thanks for the info, I like Jason used a pipe cutter, and sanded off the burrs." Re: Brass Band "I get my bands from online metals also.  I bought a metal blade for my bandsaw to cut the bands with, then I sand them on the disc sander to level them up.

" Recommended finishes? "I'd like to see what ya'll recommend for finishing woods such as cocobola, osage orange and african blackwood. Can one type of sealer coat such as Watco teak oil and a topcoat of Deft gloss poly spray be used for all these wood types? Your help is appreciated!" Re: Recommended finishes? "Osage orange will take just about any finish without causing problems.  Coco and blackwood have high oil content which make finishing a pain if you are not using a proper method.  DEFT poly spray will dry and stick without needing a teak oil prep.  Teak oil will set on the oily woods, but it will still take a day or two.

I reccommend DEFT spray poly gloss for all woods.  It's fast, has really good buildup, and looks great.  When applied at least four coats thick, the finish is fairly tough." Acrylic vs. Wood "This should be interesting, but i'll go ahead and ask the question.  What is the preference out there between acrylic vs. wood calls?  I tend to prefer wood.  If for no other reason at all, I've yet to see an acrylic call look any prettier than a piece of art hand carved out of exotic wood!" Re: Acrylic vs. Wood It is all a matter of density.  The Acrylic calls offer a consistancy and density that is unaffected by weather and other varibles.  I like you perfer the look as well as the sound that it produces. Re: Acrylic vs. Wood "I'd rather make a call out of wood.  The cinnamon-clove smell of cocobola as it is being turned is just incredible.  And how can one describe the smell of bocote?  It reminds me of dill pickles.  With wood, it's always a mystery as to what the finished produck will look like.

Acrylic is challenging but boring.  You know what it's going to look like when you're done.  The smell is unique - something similar to an organic solvent like toluene.

If you were asking me what I would rather blow?  In order of preference - acryllic, blackwood, cocobola/other rosewoods, bodoc, anything else.  (But that probably depends on when you ask me...I like 'em all.)" another newbie with the same questions I have just turned my first call using the dimensions from the Mighty Layout Boys website. I bandsawed the tone board down the center and sanded a radius. i tried to duplicate my Big River Call that I hunt with as far as tone board shape. It didn't come o Re: another newbie with the same questions [quote]Is the depth of the tone channel critical to making a quack [/quote]
The channel's function is to force air under the reed at just the right point so that the reed is lifted as it passes.  The depth of the channel isn't exactly critical.  As a g Proper reed position " ??? Does anyone have a suggestion or a tip for how to tell if a reed is laying properly on the soundboard.  I know that if the reed is not laying properly, this can cause a dramatic change in sound.  Thanks!" What's the first thing you do? " :D  Alright guys, name the first thing you do when you pick up a new duck call and want to try it out!  Also, what is the most important thing you want out of your call? (nice looking, loud, soft, easy to blow, high pitched high ball, soft quack, raspy, roll around in gravel raspy, pitch, etc.)  Don't be scared to answer.  Everyone has their own tests and desires, it doesn't make anyone right or wrong.  I just want an opportunity to learn from all of you to find out if there is something I have never thought of before.

First thing I do is try to perform a soft quack because I want a call that can work 'em close.  The most important thing to me is the pitch of the call, I can work with most everything else." Re: What's the first thing you do? "I'll take a stab at this,  the first thing I do is a couple of quick bursts and them hammer down on it and bring it back to a soft whine.  Then I see just how low and soft it'll go," Re: What's the first thing you do? "First thing I do is hold the call backwards and inhale making a sound like a sick cow.  That'll usually get the salesman to leave me alone. ;D

Actually, I have trouble blowing a feeding call on a lot of production calls, so the first thing I want to know is will it feed without a lot of air.  I'll start there, then work the range up to a hail call while listening for good transitions.  I like a call with a good high end that I can't overblow when I get too excited." Feathelite Foto Decoys Anyone used the Featherlite Foto Decoys.  I saw them at an expo last year and they looked pretty neat.  About the size of a magnum with a photo of the duck on the outside rather than paint.  And they self-inflate so that you can collapse them for easier transporting.  Just curious if anyone has any experience with these decoys. "quack,quack,squeak" "The last few inserts I have finished seem to blow with too much back pressure and either lock and squeak after one or two decent quacks, or have a slight squeal at the beginning of each quack.

I'm feel confident in the board radius and smoothness.  Also, the reed length as I started long and trimmed in hair-width increments until they were too short (then selected the best length).

I suspect I either need to lengthen the tone channel or bore the stopper end some more.   Any way to tell which without making a new piece of kindling?  Also, if everything else is OK, what happens to the sound when the bore hole is a bit off to one side and one side of the sound board is somewhat narrower than the other.

This can be a frustrating hobby.

" quonk "Re: quack,quack,squeak" "oops, used the wrong smiley.  I wasn't kidding." "Re: quack,quack,squeak" "Now you learn the hardest lesson of all grasshoppa.

You've got a call that's almost right, but one more stroke of the file could send it to the burn pile where all naughty calls go.

You could leave it as it is (with the squeal on the end) and market it as a raspy ol' hen call. ;D  Or you could go for it and hope this board wouldn't give you bad advice.  Where did I leave that disclaimer anyway? 8)

I would lengthen the channel on each of them (probably not by much at all though).  Use a sharp knife to cut away a tiny bit at a time until it sounds right.  

A slightly crooked bore shouldn't have much effect on the sound." "Re: quack,quack,squeak" "Thanks Jason, I'll give it a go.  It was from a stick of Osage Orange firewood from a friend so not much to lose except temper.  It's supposed to get cold here tonight and tomorrow, so I can use the extra firewood anyway.  " reed seat I'm having trouble making the seat for my cork using a file any help? Re: reed seat "What type of file are you using?  And, do you have jig, if so is it metal or wood?  Jason had a good idea when he smoothed the edges off his file except the one side, I have a hardened metal jig so I just file away.  Give us a little more insight and we'll get you there" Re: reed seat "I hear you!  I can't ever just use a file.  I've tried but haven't quite figured out how to do it without it taking all night.  So here's what I do.  I use a wooden jig to secure my insert and I make a "safe" cut with my scroll saw to ensure a straight cut.  From there i use needle files to file down the reedseat until I like the way the cork fits.  Still takes some time, but I'm guaranteed a perfect fit each time.  By the way, my "safe" cut is guided by a rough template so that it's not just a blind cut." Greetings "Just logged in and wanted to introduce myself. Just started making my own calls, I dont have a lathe yet<checks mail for tax refund> but I made a jig using a hand drill and a router table to turn my prototypes. I'm progressing but don't know enough yet to ask any educated questions. I'll be getting a JET mini lathe within the next month, so expect alot of mundane newbie questions.

Thanks in advance for your patience and understanding," Re: Greetings "we all started somewhere, so bring it on" Re: Greetings "Three words for you my friend:  patience, patience, patience.  But you are doing the best thing that you can do.  Surf these message boards and learn what you can from those who have made mistakes before you!" Re: Greetings "Welcome to the board Judd.  

You'll enjoy that Jet mini.  It's a great little lathe for the money.  I love mine.  It's so much better than what I was using before.

Duju's right.  There's quite a bit of information on the Internet if you know where to look.  I try to answer all questions posted here as best as I can, and as soon as I can.  I've been a little slow lately, since I've actually had to work the last few days.  Another good Internet resource is the chat boards at [url=http://www.customcalls.com]http://www.customcalls.com[/url]

Let us know how it goes.

Jason" Re: Greetings "Thanks for the welcome guys, I've been reading the boards at custom calls already--that's why I'm getting a Jet instead of a central machinery. BTW Thanks for tutorial on your sight Jason. It is what spurred me to move on from the jig I mentioned. Thanks again guys." Re: Greetings I will say hello also...although I am new here myself!!! ;D More Usage! "Jason,
I noticed that the Duck-calling forum is doing pretty well lately! Too bad my idea of a duck call is the mouthpeice to a clarinet, but hey, that's why you're the guru... You need to get you some big fat sponsorship now, and you'll be all set. Maybe you should make a "custom" realtree call, everything seems to have that stuff on it now.. LOL. At any rate, just figured I'd see what's been going on.
Later,
Will" Wood integrity "I ordered an african blackwood blank from woodturners catalog and it is about 50% sapwood. My question is, does the sapwood content compromise the strength of the wood? I want to turn an insert from it. Will this be a problem? Thanks" Re: Wood integrity "Jason can correct me if I'm wrong, but I would try to use the majority of the sapwood in the barrel part of the call, I feel that gives the call a good contrast in color.  But, as far as the insert or stopper goes I wouldn't advise it for the tone board.  Just my thoughts" Re: Wood integrity "That's about what I was thinking.  The sapwood is still very hard, but not the same as the heartwood.  It is also bonded well to the heartwood, so there shouldn't be a  problem with separation.  

The biggest problem I see is that the sapwood is porous like red oak.  This isn't a big deal on a barrel since it is sealed with a finish.  It might cause problems on an insert though.

As cheap as craft supplies sells its AB, you should expect it to have sapwood (clear AB is high dollar stuff).  The blanks I have bought recently have not been nearly as much as 50% though.  You might try ordering some more and then you can use the stuff with 50% sapwood for more barrels." Jason Re: Wood integrity Does the woodturners catalog have a website? I may have seen it but not sure!!! Re: Wood integrity "The website address is:

www.woodturnerscatalog.com

-or-

www.craftusa.com

Either one should point you in the right direction.  If all else fails, do a searh for woodturners catalog on Yahoo and it's the first hit!" Re: Wood integrity Thanks!!!! How often? " ???Just out of sheer curiosity, how often do you guys check this board for new posts?

I check this board at least 3 times a day during the week. Not so often on the weekend." Re: How often? "I usually stay logged on during the day (while I'm at work). Weekends, maybe two or three times a day.  " cuttin insert???? "I know most people use a band saw for this purpose, My question is ...could a scroll saw be used....??? Or is the band saw a definite help???" Re: cuttin insert???? "I actually prefer using my scroll saw.  I seem to have a more difficult time keeping my band saw blade straight while cutting.  Although it may be my particular band saw, I still prefer to use the scroll saw." Re: cuttin insert???? "Scroll saw would work fine.  I know several callmakers who prefer it to the bandsaw.  It's a big plus that you can easily change the scroll saw blades, so you always cut with a sharp one.  

I find that my band saw works fine.  
Before I owned a bandsaw, I thought that my wood rasps worked fine.  ;D" Drilling insert???? "Jason, in your tutorial...you partially drill insert while still on the lathe....then finish while in filing jig.....Can you give me the reason for this? Could you drill it completely after removal from lathe? And do file it to shape before or after you drill???
Thanks
Jay" Re: Drilling insert???? "Drilling the insert while in the lathe is important to ensure that the bore is perfectly centered.

Since the hole is drilled blind  8), I don't want to drill too far.   The hole can always be redrilled to the proper length, It cannot be shortened.  

After the top scrap has been removed so that I can see the channel (flat toneboard - before shaping), I place the insert into a jig where I have the desired channel length marked.  I then finish drilling with a handheld powerdrill.

After the channel has been completed, the insert is shaped.

I suppose it would be possible to drill the insert in a drill press if you had a jig to keep it perfectly perpendicualr to the table, but it's easier to do it on the lathe." Re: Drilling insert???? "WestArk - I turn out all of my inserts first on the lathe, then start my drilling when it is in the jig.  This works well for me but you have to have a machined jig with perpindicular sides.  I only drill far enough to get my hole started and to make sure that it will run true, then I cut and file the toneboard.  Then the insert comes out of the jig and I drill the rest on the drill press by hand.   Everybody has different ways of doing it.  And once you figure out what is best for you it's easy ;)" Re: Drilling insert???? "When I try to drill the last bit of the channel after the top scrap has been removed in the jig, the bit invariably pops a little sliver of the wood out of the end of the tone board that I don't want out.  I'd rather do it with some kind of reamer, but can't find one in 1/4 inch.  I've had it happen with both a twist drill bit and a brad point." Re: Drilling insert???? "Quonk, how much of the top scrap are you leaving when you extend your tone channel bore?  I have had the same problem in the past and found that if I only remove just enough top scrap to reveal the top edge of my tone channel bore, my drill bit will stay in the bore better and not cause the chipout. (At least if chipout occurs it will be in the top scrap and removed)  Any adjustments that must be made after the entire top scrap has been removed will most likely involve woodcarving techniques with sharp knives or chisels.  Not a real consistent way to do things." Re: Drilling insert???? " :o Duju, that's what I was going to say.


Quonk,  you might consider clamping a scrap of wood to the toneboard if it continues to be a problem.  Use a small enough piece that you can see the tip of the bit, so that you'll know when you've gone far enough." Re: Drilling insert???? "Yep, you guessed it.  The insert had been rough filed down to the face of the jig.  Learn something everyday around this place.  It's a wonder I still have 8 fingers.   ;D" drill bits What type drill bits do you use for drilling your barrels and inserts??? any special kinds? Re: drill bits "For my barrels, I prefer to use a wood auger bit.  I seem to have experienced better luck with them.  So far, less overheating, cleans excess material better, straighter bores, and more accurate bore sizes.

For my inserts, I prefer to use a brad point to start my bore.  However, my bores tend to be a bit longer than the average drill bit (when seated in the drill chuck).  So for safety, I switch to an extended length bit to finish the bore.

This is a good question,  I am eager to hear what others have choosen to do!" Re: drill bits "For my barrels, I use a 5/8" standard drill bit (looks just like a regular general purpose bit only larger).

For the inserts, I use a pilot point.  To prevent bit wander, it is important to use a pilot point or brad point." Timber calls?? "Okay, so what's the main difference between a regular duck call and a timber call?  Is it just the volume?

Assuming it's just volume, do you just adjust the backpressure to create a timber call?  

Let me know!  Thanks." Re: Timber calls?? "
The idea behind the marketing ploy is that when hunting in the timber, you'd like to trade volume for a soft "sexy" (to a mallard drake ;D) low end.   I think that one well designed call should be able to do both open water and timber with a good caller operating it.

Several things might accomplish this:  thinner reed(s), narrower reed(s), reeds cut straight across at the tip for extra raspiness, tone channel drilled just a hair short to get a little whine on the end of the notes." Barrel length What impact does barrel length have on the duck call?   Re: Barrel length "Duju,
From what I've seen in my limited experience the barrel length isnt the factor. How far the insert is from the mouthpiece drastically affects the sound. The farther the insert is from the mouth, the raspier the sound, and vice versa. Just have to play with it to find your magic distance for the tone you want.

Hope this helps" Drill Press? "As I said in my greeting, many mundane Q's would follow. Let's start then shall we? ;)

What recommendations do you guys have for a drill press:
Brand?
Spindle travel?
Swing?
Chuck size?

I only plan to make arkansas style duck calls for a long time. Any Advice Appreciated." Re: Drill Press? "I hate to tell you this, but all of your variables depend upon how much money you are willing to spend.  However, for me I went the economical route because I am not a full-time woodworker and therefore cannot justify the heavy expense.

I foun" Re: Drill Press? You need enough height between the table and the chuck to accomodate a drill press vise AND a barrel blank AND a drill bit of at least as long as the blank (possibly longer depending on what type of bit you use).  Most brands advertise the height fro Re: Drill Press? "OK, got it. minimum 10" from chuck to table. 4" spindle travel. What is swing? And do I need a 1/2" chuck on my drill press or will something smaller work?" Re: Drill Press? "The swing is a measurement for the distance from the supporting column to the center of the chuck, divided by two.  The intent is to inform you of the maximum diameter circle that you could place on the drill press and still be able to drill a hole i" Re: Drill Press? Got it. Thanks for the info ;D Turning acrylic "I've never messed with turning acrylic, but might like to try one or two.  I prefer wood, but curiosity is a dangerous thing.  What are the special requirements for turning acrylic?" Re: Turning acrylic "There's not much to turning acrylic.  It's the drilling and finishing that's tough.  Heat is the enemy.  When drilling, lubricate often and drill SLOW.  If you heat the acrylic up too much, it will melt or craze and you'll have a HECK of a time polishing out the tiny cracks or scars.

It's always good to use sharp tools, but it is even more important when dealing with acrylic.

" No cigar " >:(  Seems like all my calls are consistantly coming out raspy.  They sound OK for hunting I suppose, but I would like to be able to get a higher pitched, ringing quack when I blow harder, like on my favorite commercial calls.  On my raspy calls when I blow harder, I get a squeal or worse, a lockdown.  I try to make the soundboard super smooth, have incrementally lengthened tone channels, trimmed and shaped reeds TNTC, and payed particular attention to the insert radius.

I'm probably trying to oversimplify it, but am wondering what the single most common fault is that causes this malady.  Seems like I have gone through all the suggestions on Custom Calls forum and elsewhere, but obviously still doing something wrong.

Something's gotta change before long or I'm going to sell my toys and start quilting.    " Re: No cigar There is a topic on the board below this one that discusses the toneboard curvature.  Go read that topic and study the picture in it.  I have had a problem similar to this and that topic really helped.  

There are two things that com Re: No cigar ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Hey Quonk!

I set up a special board for you!  Look under the General Discussion area of the board's home page.  I think it will be a great way to draw a different demographic to this site.   ;D ;D

Lik Re: No cigar " ;Hey thanks, but I'm already having trouble cutting out all those little pieces of cloth on my bandsaw.  Any idea which blade works best?

I'm thinking of moving on to golf.  All my junk inserts should make good tees." Re: No cigar "OK, I tried the sucking on the insert deal.  I thought I was creating a rapid high pitched hail call before I saw it was my wife laughing.  It's kind of like trying to look cross-eyed at a fly on the end of your nose to determine the direction o" Re: No cigar "I think you're almost there.  Do the sucking thing again, and make note of exactly where the reed stops vibrating.  File at exactly that point.  Do the sucking thing again.  Hopefully, the vibrating point has moved farther back toward the cork.  You may have to repeat this a few times.  Don't forget to put everything back together and test blow after each adjustment.

All this talk of sucking, blowing, vibrating and cigars kinda sounds like headline news a couple years ago. ;D ;D" Re: No cigar "Thanks again, Jason.  I'm coming to the realization that I may have headed off in the wrong direction from the start.  I took one of the toneboards from a favorite commercial call and tried to make an insert very similar, rather than concentrate more on the basic physics involved in the various parts of all inserts.  In my stubbornness I kept repeating, "@$#%, theirs works, why won't mine".

Off to the shop with new knowledge. " Re: No cigar "I am really new at this, does the thickness of the reed make a higher tone.
" Re: No cigar I mean thicker is higher. Re: No cigar "As a general rule:
given all other things equal, a shorter reed will produce higher pitch.  Amazingly, removing only a hairs width off of the tip of the reed can affect the pitch significantly.

All other things being equal, a thicker reed would have more resistance to flexing, thus making it somewhat louder and harder to blow." Re: No cigar "AMEN QUONK!  I've made several calls now and they sound okay, but nothing I'd set a jig to.  I must look like nut ball to anyone who sees me suckin dem darn inserts till I'm blue in the face. ;D  My eyes are stuck now, I think it's Jason's fault from looking at the reed while I inhale! hehehehe, and I need to go to an eye specialist because  I got my calls going good but my eyes are crossed now, so i won't be able to shoot when they pitch in!!!  Beyond that, this is a lot of fun! ;D

Matt" Re: No cigar "Matt, the last time I was at the skeet range, one of the regulars told me that my eyes were "cross dominant".   So far, no one's accused me of being "cross eyed dominant".    ;D" Re: No cigar " ???  Jason, something you said earlier in this thread keeps bugging me.  You said to note exactly where the reed is sticking when you inhale on the insert and file exactly at that spot ( to take out the flatness).   I don't have the best eyes anymore, but about all I see is a blur at best.   Am I too old for this hobby? ;D

Relative to this topic, is the toneboard curvature critical past the end of the reed? I make sure the curve continues past the reed, but most of my effort at eliminating flat spots and smoothness is concentrated from the reed seat to the end of the tone channel.

" Re: No cigar "I don't think so, but to be honest, I've never done much experimenting with that part of the toneboard.  I've just let the radius continue naturally until it rolls off of the tip.  

It seems that the smallest differences change the sound in big ways, so I wouldn't be surprised if it had a bigger effect than I give it credit for." Re: No cigar "I dont know if this will help or not, but Ive found that in relation to your sound board curvature, when the ramp starts, it is gradual, and then grows in slope until you run out of wood, the lesser slope area seems to contribute to the raspyness of the call.  Maybe something to look at might be the rate of curve at the 'midpoint' of the reed and back towards the cork a bit.  Many times Ive had a call that someone brought to me and said, I want it raspier, so I grab the file, and lighten the curve a bit towards the begining of the ramp (not where the flat comes out from the cork but after that.)  So you might decrease the radius (increse curve) a bit in that area.
Wade
" Stabilized wood So what' the big scoop about stabilized wood?  I've seen some people market the ability to stabilize wood and some callmakers even use it.  I guess I just haven't read the right article just yet.  Any thoughts? Re: Stabilized wood "The term "stabilized wood" is a little broad.  I'm sure that you are referring to acrylic impregnated wood.  I've never used the product, but I can certainly see its benefits over regular wood.  The finished blank has all the beauty of real wood" Fine tuning "I have a call that will quack, hail call, comeback, and feed call exceptionally well.  In fact, it is the best sounding call I have ever made.  However, the call sticks when attempting to chuckle through the call (you know ticka-ticka-ticka, etc)  The soft quack also has a really slow vibration and doesn't sound like a duck at all.  My normal breath from the diaphram is more than enough to make the call come to life with normal to loud volume, but intentionally soft calls are lacking.  Any ideas?  I tried trimming the tip of the reeds at different angles, but that only screwed up the pitch and caused the high ball to squeal.  I am open to suggestions.  BTW, the radius has a pretty dramatic downturn away from the reed and the reed vibrates at the reedseat as I believe it should." Re: Fine tuning Your problem probably doesn't rely on the toneboard itself.  Sounds to me like a backpressure problem.  Bore out your exhaust a little more(to a larger diameter) and I bet this will clear up the "locking feed chuckle" problem.  Hope this helps. Re: Fine tuning "I think that you may be very close to getting what you are looking for.  It sounds like you are now getting good movement from the entire reed and that's good.  Your problem might be that the overall radius is just a little too dramatic.  

The funny sounding soft quack is probably due to large slow reed movements.  The louder quacks, hails, etc aren't affected much since the extra air moves the reed faster.  If you flatten out the radius just slightly (and I don't mean completely flat) mainly at the half farthest away from the reedseat, you may get a better sounding soft quack.  Hopefully this won't change your louder calls much.

j" High pitch "I had this insert doing a beautiful hail and high end work, but it wouldnt go low to my satisfaction, clucks and chuckles were fine. I took a little off the end and well now there's too much rasp in my hail and still no lows to speak of.

My question is this: Did I drill the insert a little too far? My gut feeling says I did, but I'm too much of a newbie to HAVE a gut feeling.

Should I have filed near the wedge instead

Your insight is appreciated. ???" Re: High pitch "You'll know when you've drilled the insert too far because It will require a lot of air to get a quack since some of the air is escaping under the reed without having to move it first.

When you saw it won't "go low", do you mean that it won't get soft, or that the notes won't descend to a low enough pitch?  Low notes are made by slow big reed movements.  It's possible that the radius is a bit too flat.

j" Tip of soundboard "Has anyone figured out the relationship between the distance from the tip of the insert to the beginning of the tone channel?  I assume the radius of the soundboard affects this relationship.  But in general, how does this relationship affect the sound of duck calls?  (Arkansas style call)" Re: Tip of soundboard "The radius of the soundboard does affect the overall length of the tone channel, but I really have no idea what the relationship is to the tip of the toneboard." Length of insert??? "What effect if any does the length of the insert have on the sound of the call.....I understand the positon of the insert inside of the call makes a difference in the sound, but does the amount of insert outside of the barrel effect the sound ?
I hope this makes since? Basically I am asking does the amount of insert you have sticking out of the bottom of your barrel, make a difference in the sound of the call? " Re: Length of insert??? "The primary effect of a longer insert is increased backpressure.  The extra length alone shouldn't make a perceptible change in tone or pitch.  If you were to carry this to an extreme, as in a goose flute which may be longer than 12 inches, you'll start noticing some changes in tone.  

In a traditionally styled duck call, the length of the insert is primarily determined by aesthetics...what looks good and feels good.

Now I wonder what a duck flute would sound like? ::)" Re: Length of insert??? "Thanks, that is what I kinda thought!!! " Welcome to the board everybody! "I've noticed our usage had been picking up some, and figured I would welcome all the new people to the board!

The general forum is for anything non-technical, or whatever seems to be on your mind at the time... so feel free to post about anything you want.

If you have a problem with the site or just a question or concern, send a moderator a private message and we'll help you out!

Thanks and enjoy!

Will  " Hello....Is anybody out there? This board sure has been quiet for several days now.  I guess we have all imparted the extent of our knowledge and questions.  What a shame.  Nothing more to learn. ;D

Re: Hello....Is anybody out there? "I'm still here - sort of :-[
I've been extrememly busy at work for the past few weeks, and the babies haven't been cooperating much so nobody's getting any sleep at home.  I can't seem to get into a posting mood.  I think things are looking better, so I'll try to catch up soon.

j" finishes Guys help me I can not find a finish that will stick to my calls due to the high oil content in the wood. Help I am going crazy. >:( Re: finishes "I have had great results with DEFT polyurethane lacquer.  I haven't found a wood that it won't adhere to.  I have tried other polyurethane lacquers but only the DEFT has given satisfactory results.  

It will dry to the touch in 5 minutes, but give it 24 hrs to completely cure before putting the insert and barrel together." Re: finishes thanks alot jason got some and tryed it it works great. great web site keep up the good work. Re: finishes "Are you guys using "Defthane" in the grey can or "Deft" in the white can??  Just wondering.  I use Defthane in the grey can and it takes at least 24hrs before it is tack free.  I tried Deft in the white can but found that it didn't hold up well in hunting conditions.  I am applying a rubbed in base coat before my first coat of Defthane which might account for the longer drying time.  One thing I hate about Defthane is that once you get below a half can it doesn't seem to apply as well.  i think this is due to repeated use, which gums up the spray nozzle.  After this happens you get a stream of finish coming out instead of a spray.  Anybody else had this problem?  I've tried cleaning the nozzle in acetone and lacquer thinner but it doesn't seem to help.  " Re: finishes "DEFT in the white can.

I apply no less than 4 good coats, most calls get more.  It holds up reasonably well in hunting conditions.   I haven't owned a wooden call yet with a finish that holds up any better." Re: finishes "Jason - That is interesting.  All of our "Deft in the white cans" around here is a lacquer and not a poly.  I tried Defts lacquer and found that it didn't hold up to the abuse like I liked.  I've been very pleased with their poly though.  It takes more time to dry and it also has a tendency to "ex-gas"(bubble), but I can work around that pretty easily.  Might be some type of marketing thing.  Sure seems like we are using the same finish, just a different can! :)" Re: finishes "[quote]Sure seems like we are using the same finish, just a different can! [/quote]

No, I checked the can, and you are right...it is not poly.  
I've never used DEFTHANE before.  It may be different than the other brands of polyurethane that I've used in the past.

Based on my experience with other brands of polyurethane, I've decided that I don't like it for several reasons.  I don't believe that it holds up any better than the DEFT lacquer, but it will take over 6 times as long to cure.  It stays tacky for six hours on non-oily woods, and seems to never dry on rosewoods.  It also yellows the appearance of the wood.

I'll have to give DEFTHANE a try.  I may change my mind.  ;D" Re: finishes "Jason - Try the Defthane and see what you think.  I think that it is a much harder finish and holds up much better than the lacquer.  I've used both and it is just my opinion.  As for drying time, yes, it does take longer to dry but i think" Re: finishes "Watkins, I experience the same problem with the last half of the Deft spray.

I read on another site some time back about sealing the oily woods by burnishing in a mixture of white shellac and boiled linseed.  I do it and seem to have no proble" Re: finishes "Hey fellas,

Does anybody dip their calls, rather than spraying?
A buddy of mine said he used to watch Mr. Amaden (Hambone Calls) dip them, then hang them up to dry overnight.

My question is, what do you use to hang'em?
Seems like if you didn't have a plan, you'd end up with a sticky, drippin', runny mess. It's bound to be a good, tough coat, though.
I've seen some good old Hambones that have stood the test of time..." flatlander Re: finishes "First off, welcome ato the best board on the net


I dipped mine before i found Deft. I just bent paperclips into a "V" with lil ends sticking straight out. Tied on the end of a string at the apex, inserted into barrel or exhaust. I used it for dipping and hang-drying. Just put down newspaper 6 sheets thick and clean up is a breeze. ;)" Judd Re: finishes "A friend call maker in Florence, SC uses Last and Last Polyurethane from somewhere in Pennsylvania and he in really satisfied with it.  Uses an air brush to apply and dries in <24hrs.  He sprays 8 days in a row and sands each day before spraying.  His calls look like they're glass coated!














" Re: finishes "My family is in the construction business, and dad came across this stuff called Rexthane I ($165 a gallon, we got it for $40) its a marine industrial finish, I dipped my first call into it last night, it was dried overnight, but I haave a ton of bubbles.  So I will be looking at other options of finishing with this stuff, cause it is HARD and shines like new money.  ANY suggestions as to how to apply would be appreciated.  Gonnna try wipping it while spinning at a slow speed on the lathe, or a sponge brush on the lathe, those were suggestions from our painter.  He said he had never used anything so thick." Re: finishes Are ya'll spraying that deft onto the brass bands also?
Seems like it scratches off pretty easily... Re: finishes
 No one ever replied about deft chipping off of the brass bands in the previous reply. I ran into this same problem does anybody have any thoughts? Or are you guys not spraying over the bands ? Re: finishes "I spray the bands.

With a good coat (actually several light coats), It is reasonably durable, but will eventually chip or scratch.  I've never seen a hunting call that didn't have a scratched up band." Turkey Hunting "Are any of you turkey hunters?

A friend and I are just starting out this year and we're learning as we go.  We've only been twice, but both times we've seen birds and worked gobblers close, but so far not close enough to close the deal.

How long should I remain in one place trying to convince a gobbler to come to me?  Both times, the birds seemed to hang up just out of sight (probably around 75 yards).  On the first hunt, we set up and didn't move until the birds stopped gobbling after about 45 minutes.  The second hunt, we set up and stayed about 30 minutes before we split up and tried to approach the gobblers from opposite sides.  That didn't work either.

Any suggestions?   ???" Re: Turkey Hunting "TURKEY HUNTING TIPS

before you start to call for a bird, [b]first [/b] set up directly across from your partner that is wielding a mossberg 3 1/2 pump.  once the bird comes within range directly in the center point between the caller and the shooter everything should fall into place.

thank you and don't do too much acid at the panic show.
[img]http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/trailer/10000500/GratefulDawg
-trailer_01.jpg[/img]" Re: Turkey Hunting "Hey Jason!
I don't know what it's like down in your parts, but up here with the Rio's, I try not to get too close to the roost and I use bottlenecks and smooth paths that the birds like to take.  Plus the gobblers can see what they're lookin for (my hen deke w/ jake)  Kinda like ducks, call according to their behavior.  If he's hot, keep him on a string.  I really don't know that much, I've only hunted em 4 seasons.  If all else fails, I set up in the open meadows, alfalfa, or pasture and sit for hours until a tom rips off at my calls, and work him in.  I suppose, I'm doin somethin right, I've filled all my tags in the dekes. ::)  Hope this rookie turkey hunter helped ya  a little.
Here's one that my wife (in pic) and I took a couple weeks ago.

[IMG]http://gallery.alloutdoorschat.com/Waterfowler/mindyturkey.jpg[/IMG]
" Re: Turkey Hunting "Jason,
  Well, luckly, you're hunting with another person, so here are a few things that should close the deal on that ol' gobbler!!
  1) Try have one of yall, who ever the best caller is, get up and move away from the gobbling bird, that way he will think the hen is moving away, and walk right into the hunters sights!
   2) When the birds hangs up, try siftening your calls to clucks and purrs, or scratch the leaves, then if that don't work, lay your calls down and wait, go quite on him!
   3) If all else fails, wait till he's gone, then go see if some kinda barrier was bewteen yall i.e. a old fence, creek, fall tree etc. if none exist, set up where you heard him gobble before, some birds refuse to leave thier strut zones to come to a call!

Mudhole
OutdoorsLouisiana.com" small face plate jason or whoever can anwser this where can i get a small face plate that will fit turning stock. Re: small face plate "I thought I had seen one on Grizzly's webpage but I can't find one now since they've changed up their website.  You might call the customer service number.  I've had bad experience with grizzly products before, but their customer service is always friendly and helpful.  [url]http://www.grizzly.com[/url]

" Re: small face plate "I forgot to mention one thing...
When I bought a new JET lathe, the TPI was different than my old Grizzly, so the small faceplate I was using didn't work.  The JET came with a large faceplate which was too big for 1.5X1.5 spindle stock.  I ha" Re: small face plate nova compac jaw chuck

Re: small face plate thanks guys i think i will buy a four jaw chuck since i have a jet lathe. FISH TOURNEY who is up for a little money in the pot for a fish tournament?
maybe just the group...jason...you get you crew.  i gets mine.
i have my management staff on this matter as we speaks.
(see below)
only lakes connected (or formerly connected) to the MS RIVER.

[img]http://www.merchdirect.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/BE901.jpg[/img] Re: FISH TOURNEY "I don't know if I want to do anything organized by him...  ::)

I didn't know you liked to fish hitman, I thought you only liked to eat them... ;)" Re: FISH TOURNEY I'm still waiting on my guided trip to Chotard.  So when are we going Hitman? Re: FISH TOURNEY first...will...i eat and i catch fish.  i drink.  and i smoke.

i ask my mgt. staff about you being part of the tourney.

these were the comments...
"i don't know nothing about that..."

Re: FISH TOURNEY "the guide fishing is close.
seriously, we are going this Sunday. the river is around 36 feet and going up approx 1/10 or so a day.  there are some special areas on tara that can be accessed at that time.  this leads to a honeycomb of basses and fishes alike.  
i think next week maybe wednesday or thursday we are going to hit.  you take a day off and shop can be held down by others." Re: FISH TOURNEY I hear those Tara boyz don't like it when you start floatin over their piece of river bottom. Re: FISH TOURNEY
[quote author=HITMAN link=board=general&num=1018544309&start=0#3 date=05/09/02 at 08:15:10]
first...will...i eat and i catch fish.  i drink.  and i smoke.

i ask my mgt. staff about you being part of the tourney.

these were the comments...
"i don't know nothing about that..."


[/quote]

I don't doubt that... BJ don't care much about anything... brass reeds Came across a old driving duck call (hand made but maker has passed away. The call has a .006 brass reed. the Buurr sound is great!! would like any info on how to tune etc. understand this is kind of a lost art. Re: brass reeds "Hopefully one of our other readers can help out.  

Personally, I have ZERO experience with metal reed calls and not quite that much with diving duck calls.

You ought to try posting your question on the message board at [url]http://www.customcalls.com[/url]  There are a lot of call collectors and callmakers who would be familiar with metal reed calls.  They may be able to help." Insert Exhaust. "I would like to know from other call makers what kind of insert exhuast size they use? I use about 11ml from the exit for about 25mil with a taper, then leading into the reed seat to the tone board which is the common 1/4" hole. Without being able to study other calls on this side of the world I would like other opinions . Cheers." Re: Insert Exhaust. "After drilling the initial tone channel, I go through a series of larger bits to open up the exhaust as much as possible.  Finally, I ream out the exhaust with a tapered reamer.  I'm not sure of the sizes of any of the bits (including the tone channel).  That's not intended to be a secret, I've just never paid attention to the particular sizes." Re: Insert Exhaust. Jason -  if you don't mind me asking.  What kind/size tapered reamer do you use and where did you get it?   Re: Insert Exhaust. I use a step bit #1 I think. 1/32" steps. works real nice. Re: Insert Exhaust. "Watkins...
the taper starts at about 1/4" and flares to about 1/2 inch.  I don't remember where I got it or even why I bought it in the first place.  It's one of those things that's been in my toolbox for years.  When I started making calls, I dug it out and found that it worked great.  

[img]http://www.missmallard.com/images/makecall/step_i09.jpg[/img]" supplies Can anybody tell me where I can get a sheet of mylar to make some reeds??

Thanks Re: supplies Our local Wal mart has it in packages of several sheets in the sewing or crafts department......I think they had a couple of different thicknesses also!!!! ;D Re: supplies You can also goto the custom calls web sight there is a section for supplys. www.customcalls.com Re: supplies "I don't know where you are located, but I happen to have a plastics supplier in my town.  I obtain a lot of my mylar from the supplier and it comes in such an abundance that I don't have to reorder for an extremely long time.  Significantly cheaper by the bulk." Re: supplies Hut now has SHEET mylar.  I like it because it is sometimes hard to find mylar that hasn't been rolled.  Mylar that comes off the roll is no good due to "memory".  I think the sheet mylar is listed on their web site.  I am not talking about the reeds that are already cut and part of their "lego callmaking system" :) Cajun/Louisiana style call "Has anyone ever heard of a cajun/Louisiana style call?  I've heard these calls before and they seem to have a squeal on the very end of the call to resemble rice in the ducks throat.  Has anyone ever heard of this?  If so, is there a specific way to make this type of a call, or is it just a perfected technique in the way the call is blown?" Re: Cajun/Louisiana style call "Duju,
 Yea, Haydels makes one called the Cajun Squeal, it's a plastic call similuar to the DR-85. Acorcording to Rod Haydel, the "squeal" is made by constricting your throat at the ends of the notes! personally, I aint never beeb able to make it work!!   :)" Re: Cajun/Louisiana style call I have one of haydels calls and last season i blew it a whole bunch on open water it is a great call i made a call similar sounding by accident and i love it I plan on useing it this season my hadel call was a killer so i hope this one will be and it is not as hard to blow it has a natural squeal at he end. Re: Cajun/Louisiana style call I've never seen or heard one.  I assume that the call is tuned just shy of sticking and with a little more back pressure than usual?

Rick Dunn has a soundfile on his website where he makes the call sound like more than one duck by squealing a bit at the end of each note.  I think he does this with a regular call.  It's pretty cool. zebrawood Anyone know how zebrawood holds up?  How it sounds?  
Just curious.
Matt :-/ Re: zebrawood I've never used zebrawood.  The samples I've seen look similar in color and grain to bocote (which I really like). Re: zebrawood "Zebrawood is not nearly as hard as many other exotics.  Since the wood is not as dense, zebrawood stoppers tend to be not quite as loud as others.  I've never had any problems with the few zebrawood calls that I have made.  I have always finished them with a hard poly finish.  I doubt an oil finish would hold up well on zebrawood.  

If you've ever turned Teak, it is about the same, minus the oil.
" The Bum "
A bum, who obviously has seen more than his share of hard times, approaches a well-dressed gentleman on the street. "Hey, Buddy, can you spare two dollars?"



The well-dressed gentleman responds, "You are not going to spen" Re: The Bum ;DAmen to that Jason. HEHEHE.  I think I'll show that to the ol' lady!

Matt Insert Wood    :-/Any ideas to which is the best insert timber to use? Re: Insert Wood "My favorites for a hunting call (loosely in order of preference) are:  Cocobola, African Blackwood, Bocote, Ebony, Bois d' arc.

::) That's all that I can think of, but I'm probably leaving something out." Re: Insert Wood "Cocobolo and Ebony are my mainstays.  I prefer Ebony but due to the cost of ebony I don't make as many as cocobolo.  

Osage Orange (Hedge, Bois D Arc) also makes a very nice stopper.

" Re: Insert Wood "my favorite insert woods are coocabola, brazilan rose wood witch is pretty rare and then hedge. " Re: Insert Wood "Jason, I thought African blackwood and Ebony were the same. What's the difference?

I like Cocobola. Have some Bolivian Rosewood I haven't turned yet. If your looking for something a little less expensive, try Eastern Red Cedar, it has a good ducky sound." guys  found a great wood you guys might want to try this wood it is called brazilan rosewood it sounds great and makes a great lookin call it turns like butter if you go to the custom calls web sight and look for berea hardwoods they have it i think they are the only people who carry it because it hasent been avalible for over 20 years. it costs about 1.00 a  inch and is going to go up in price so get you some and give it a try you will love it.
;)
Re: guys  found a great wood check @ woodcraft.com too. They have Bolivian Rosewood for about the same price as coco. It may have been Brazilian but if not it's gotta be real similar. Starting fron scratch! "Hey guys, I would be interested in learning how to make duck calls, seeing how I don't seem to have any of the tools yall have, where do I need to start? What's the step by step procdure to making a duck call...etc.

Mudhole
OutdoorsLouisiana.com" Re: Starting fron scratch! "Mudhole,
Where you start depends on how much time and effort you are willing to put into a single call.  You can make a call with nothing more than a pocket knife.  Of course, it will take quite a bit of time and a ton of effort.   Better tools help yo" Re: Starting fron scratch! ;)Mudhole-
I know where you're coming from.  I started out several months back and had no clue what I was doing.   I've been working my calls in a rather crude manner due to lacking equipment.  But I now have the very basics:  small lathe; small drill press; and scroll saw; 8pc turning tool set; and patience.  Just a peice of advice that might save you money in the long run... go ahead and get a good lathe and turning tools.  I bought cheap stuff and pay for it everytime I work a call.  Now i'm looking at biting the bullet and buying quality stuff that I should have gotten in the first place. ::)

Good luck and keep us posted.
Matt Re: Starting fron scratch! "Like the other guys said, you can do with just a little, or go overboard.  If I had to list essential equipment for me, it would be a lathe, drill press, band saw, disc/belt sander.  A radial arm saw comes in handy also.  Plenty of vices, files, bits, etc.  

Matt had a very good suggestion.  Buy quality equipment from the start.  I've been making calls for 16 years and I still have to remind myself that if you cut corners, you pay in the long run.  I've bought cheap equipment before, thinking I was saving a dollar, only to turn around 3 weeks later and put more money down on better stuff.  I'm not saying that the most expensive is the best, just remember to do your homework when you think you are getting a deal.

Good luck!

Brian
" Re: Starting fron scratch! i agree with the others I just started making calls 2 months ago by seeing jasons step by step instuctions and i bought the best equipment like a jet lathe and a delta band saw and a 10" drill press and i dont regret buying at all. AOL I.S. "i've been trying to find a good port to run AOL instant stalker.  any ideas?

by the way...is bruce lee posting in the general.
also, i can get some trollers some access if you all like?" HITMAN Re: AOL I.S. "[quote author=HITMAN link=board=general&num=1020950521&start=0#0 date=05/09/02 at 08:22:00]
i've been trying to find a good port to run AOL instant stalker.  any ideas?

by the way...is bruce lee posting in the general.
also, i can get some trollers some access if you all like?
[/quote]

I have no idea what in the world you are talking about...
Is that Acura leaking exhaust into the cabin or something?  :o" Will How long????? "Okay, I know that everyone is different and that everyone devotes time to the art of crafting duck calls.  BUT, out of curiosity, how long did it take you guys to come up with a sound that you liked and decided, "This is the one!"  " Re: How long????? " ;D  Personally, I haven't had that happen yet, but I've had a lot of them turn out that made me think "Hey, that ain't bad" and some others that I think would call ducks to the spread on a flight day, and many more that would flare ducks and make the dog groan.

One of the biggest problems I think most of us amateurs run into is consistency, given the equipment we use, and especially using any kind of wood.  One call will sound great, and the next one that we swear was made within .001 of it sounds like crap.  

For now, and with the resources at hand, I'm happy with the "that ain't bads", and the more chips and dust I make the more frequently that's happening.  ;D

" Re: How long????? "Quonk-
I'm like you, I guess I'm still trying to get one perfect.  I have had a couple that Just sang sweet music, the next day I'd pick em up and they sounded different.  I'm a perfectionist so I'm probably just flat nuts ;D.  Never satisfied. ::)
MAtt" THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!! "Hey guys, just wanted to say thanks for all the help I recieved on this forum! I posted a question on May the 9th, had 16 views, and not one reply!!! Once again, thanks for all the help!!!     ???  >:(  :-X  >:(  :-/" Re: THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!! "Yours isn't the easiest question to answer :P

Most of the readers are in the same position you are in, or were asking similar questions just recently.  The others,  ::)I guess::), are spending more time in the shop and less time on the message board.  (Where's that smiley for the shoulder shrug?)" Re: THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!! "Mudhole,

Sorry I was one of the views but no reply.  In my view, when someone asks a question such as yours, you need an informed and intelligent answer.  I'm not sure if I fall into either category, so I decided to let someone else give " DU Great Outdoors Festival???? "This may be posted in the wrong forum, but is anybody planning to go to the DU Great Outdoors Festival in Memphis in 2 weeks?

" Re: DU Great Outdoors Festival???? "I hadn't made any plans, but I always seem to end up going.  It's too close (3.5 hrs) not to go.  
Are you going Doug?" Re: DU Great Outdoors Festival???? "I've been once before, and am trying to make plans to go.  I went 2 years ago and it was pretty interesting.  I heard they are going to expand their duck calling contests this year and that the Stihl Lumberjack Series is also going to be there.  I think I might like to see both events.  I haven't seen a list of the exhibitions/demonstrations this year, that's usually what ultimately decides it for me.  Unless you want to go shop for closeout gear and see some of the new gear for the upcoming year, the demonstrations seem to be the most interesting part to me.  " quonk's back w/more ?????? " ;D  Haven't checked in for awhile cause I figured everything out and all my calls look and work perfect  ;D ;D ;D  Actually I've acquired a new lab pup that we're trying to domesticate and haven't been cybering much lately.  I do have a couple of questions some of you may have a simple answer for though.  

I'm turning my barrels after they're bored though and cut to 3".  One end fits fine on the tapered tail stock with the live center, but on the other end I'm using a 4-jaw chuck with a hickory mandrel tapered to accept the other end of the piece I'm turning.  Doesn't work real well because I have to keep tightening the thing as I as turn the barrel.  

Any suggestions for a better setup??  I'd like to avoid actually chucking the barrel stock.

I said I had a couple questions, but I've forgotten the other
one at the moment.  :-/" Re: quonk's back w/more ?????? here's what I do.  

Made a mandrel out of hickory. No chuck. center to center.

This part will help I think. Coat the mandrel with ur favorite finish (Deft spray).  This really helps with the loosening problem.

Hope it helps Re: quonk's back w/more ?????? "Judd, do you have any "spin outs" with your work piece, or do you avoid it with mega rpm's?  I'm afraid if I cranked the old grizzley up too high something might blow.

I've solved the problem temporarily by putting a flat headed stop screw in the hickory madrel's taper about where the piece normally stops.

When I get a few bucks ahead I'm thinking about getting a mandrel machined with a morse taper to fit the lathe on one end and having the taper on the other end to fit the work piece, but with some shallow square shoulders on the work piece end to snug it against (if that makes sense),

BTW, I remembered the other question.  I read on some call makers site that African Blackwood makes one of the best insert materials, but some of the wood suppliers don't list it as such.  Is it the same as ebony, or one of the rosewoods?" Re: quonk's back w/more ?????? "quonk-
that sounds like a lot of work?  I thought I was the only one who did things the hard way ;D Just kidding.  Jason told me to put some tape around my mandrel , so I put some electric tape where the barrel gets snug, and that seems to hold better.  Still get spin outs but not as bad.

matt" Re: quonk's back w/more ?????? If your mandrel is already a tight fit (you shouldn't be able to twist it by hand) then a likely cause for the problem is dull tools.  Keeping sharp tools eliminates a lot of frustrations.

For that occasional barrel that's just a little too lo Re: quonk's back w/more ?????? "I get a few spinouts still, but many times fewer than before the finish. I use about 2200 RPM once I get my stock rounded. I got a Mercury Mini Lathe that I've never tried on the high speed pullies. I gotta recommend it whenever you replace "Ol' Grizzly." Check it out at woodcraft.com.

Another trick I discovered:

If your close to finishing a piece and it starts spinning on ya, wet your mandrel. This'll raise the grain on the mandrel to hold the piece tighter. This is only a temporary fix but it works." Tools "Jason, what kinda lath and drill press do you use/recommend? I've seen a lath on sale at Harbor Frieght, it's a cariable speed 14x40!!?? They also have a 5 speed drill press with a tilt table I think it's a 8"??

" Re: Tools "I don't have any equipment yet myself, looking for advice.  So to add to the questions above.  What do you think the minimum length should be between the points of the lathe? Considering if you use a 3 or 4 jaw chuck and a drilling attachment with bit.  If it is possible to bore/drill with your lathe, would you still have to have a drillpress?" Re: Tools "I use a JET mini lathe to turn my calls and I recommend it highly.  I converted my old Grizzly mini lathe into a disc sander.

My drill press is a table top model similar to the one you describe from Harbor Freight.  It works, and is WAY better than" Re: Tools "BellyHead,
figure 2-3 inches for the 4 jaw chuck, about 4-5 inches for the insert blank, 3-4 inches for drill bit, and probably about 2 inches for the jacobs chuck.  That comes out to somewhere in between 11-14 inches between centers.

Most minis" metal jig Help Please!! I've tried using a wood jig but I have had trouble
getting them to stay togther. I'm in the market for a metal jig
any help? A guy I know who makes calls to sell told me to expect to spend so where in the neighborhood of $800 is that true? I realize there are some for $189 in catalogs (hut products) is that a good one or should I try to make my own? :-/



Re: metal jig "Cody, I haven't heard the 800 price, but I'm sure there's probably some shops that would charge that much.  Haven't heard any reports - or + on the Hut jigs, but I know they produce a quack.  I stopped by Hut's one day when I was in the area and talked to" quonk Re: metal jig "$800?   :o  It better be solid gold for that.  

If I didn't know a machinist, I would expect to pay 200-300 for a custom hardened jig.  I haven't priced machining services, but I know what the material and hardening cost.

If HUT can sell a jig for $189 and make a profit, then you should be able to find a machinist that can do it for a similar price.

If you've made an insert that you would like to set a jig to, print out Jeremy's drawings from customcalls.com, bring the drawings and the insert to a local machinist.  Explain what you would like the jig to be able to do, and find out what he would charge.  It shouldn't cost ya anything to ask.

It's worth the extra money to produce a toneboard of your own design - not some other callmakers.

If it's really $800, then I'd stick to wooden jigs until I could afford it." Re: metal jig "Jughead is back, Sorry I haven't been posting, but I have a new house, new baby boy, and an OLD tired ass.  But, as for the metal jig, I finally got a call I was happy with took it to a local machinist, got it right and I was out 140 bucks, and that included the heat treating, went back, and got a metal mandrel for another 40 bucks, it shouldn't be anywhere near the 800 bucks" Re: metal jig "Glad you're back Jughead!

We moved a little over a year ago, and still haven't unpacked some things.  My babies keep me out of the shop more than I'd like, so I've actually spent much more time on the duck hunting message boards than I should.   ;D" Re: metal jig The Hut toneboard jigs work.  I will not say they are the best in the world but they are not the worst either.  I have since developed my own design and got my jig for $250 but it is made out of m1 tool steel and the only thing on earth harder than it is a diamond.  

Now I have a HUT toneboard jig that I will let go cheap.  Just because it is not being used.  I agree with Jason it is great to make your own design and it is the most important part of callmaking.  BUT I would have never been able to make my design without all of the knowledge that I gained while playing with the HUT jig.  email me if you are interested.

;D Buck Quartly News Letter "Jason and the rest of you call makers out there, I am thinking of starting a quartly news letter, and wanted to ask to see if yall would be intrested in having yours call added to it? Maybe a "Call of the Quarter" page kinda thing, featureing pics of call, call maker, etc. what do yall think?? Send me a e-mail if interested." Re: Quartly News Letter sounds great i would love something like that. Re: Quartly News Letter "I'm in, just let me know what you guys need." Locked up "Thanks for the help on the metal jig,I've got one being made now for about $40 bucks. But I have a ? about some thing some times I have a reed to lock up are a least thats what I call it any way do any of you know what might be the cause of it? Is it back pressure are the tone board? The call sounds ok under light pressure but when I blow hard they lock up." Re: Locked up "Check the old posts...I'm pretty sure there was some discussion of your problem.  

I would first try opening up the exhaust as much as possible to eliminate back pressure.  If you still have the lock up problems, your tone channel may be too short.  Lengthening the channel by a tiny amount can have a huge difference in sound, so go very slow.  The unfortunate thing is that once you go too far, you cant go back." Re: Locked up "As far as going back, if you bore too far or if you change your mind on how you want the call to sound after you drilled, you can go back.  It takes a bit of patience and work, but holds nicely.  Fill the channel as far back as you want to go, plus  just a little with JB Weld, after of course a heathy scrubbing with brake cleaner on a Qtip.  Ive done this many times, either cause I miss drilled or because I changed my mind on how that call should sound, and I have not had one come loose yet, and that inclused running some acrylics through the vibratory polisher/sander.  Tried digging one glued spot out with a pocket knife, well, JB weld held, so well in fact it peeled the chunk of Cocabolo it was stuck to out with it.  Havent tried it on any more resiny wood than CB though.
Wade
" Finally made it! "Thanks to y'all, the website has finally broken into the top 100 hunting websites!  This is a mile stone I've been looking forward to for a while.


[img]http://www.missmallard.com/images/100top.gif[/img]
" Jason Re: Finally made it! "Oh well, that didn't last long  :-/

Today's hits should bump it back into the top." Re: Finally made it! Jason- the thanks goes out to you for having such a great site and being an equally great fellow.
Matt Re: Finally made it! " :)I'd like to add to the kudos for Jason.  It is certainly a fine site, and for people like me struggling along trying to make a piece of wood quack, he is most helpful.  My wife used to say the sound sequence coming out of the garage was "squeak, damn, squeak, damn".  Now she says it sounds kinda like a duck sometimes.

" Re: Finally made it! That is cool...means more people are checking in here!!!!
I haven't been posting much but I do try to check in every day....little league baseball is keeping me out of the shop at the moment!!! Re: Finally made it! "Congratulations!  When I first started checking the site there were very few registered members of the message board.  Since that time, the postings have really increased and led to some interesting discussions.  This is a tribute not only to Jason for building a great informative site, but also to everyone out there that continues to post questions and replies.  Congratulations to all.  Keep it up and we'll climb to the top of that poll!" Re: Finally made it! great job Jason because of you i learned how to make calls keep up the good work. ;D Finally Made It! "Thanks to y'all, the website has finally broken into the top 100 hunting websites!  This is a mile stone I've been looking forward to for a while.

[center]
[img]http://www.missmallard.com/images/100top.gif[/img]
[/center]" Re: Finally Made It! Jason- the thanks goes out to you for having such a great site and being an equally great fellow!
Matt test test[img width=0 height=0]http://www.hitsunlimited.com/cgi-bin/100tophunt/100top.cgi?IDimg=748[/img] Jason Low pitch characteristic " ??? Any ideas on what characteristic(s) help to produce a low pitch quack.  My calls seem to retain a higher pitch on the low end than what I really want.  I have tried most everything I can think of (toneboard curvature, long tone board, long tone channel, etc.)  I've read many times on this board about toneboard curvature.  What is the effect if the curvature is too dramatic too quick?  I've even put so much curve that the tip of the reed is virtually hanging in the air by almost 5/16" or more.  Any suggestions?" Re: Low pitch characteristic i dont know if this will help but most of my calls are low pitched. My tonebords have a slite cuvature and then they dive off i also use a very wide reed. I dont know if this will help. Re: Low pitch characteristic You didn't mention longer reed...have you tried a slightly longer reed in the same toneboard? Re: Low pitch characteristic "I've tried longer reeds and a toneboard curvature that just all but does a 10.0 olympic dive away from the reed.  Just seems that I keep playing with so many variables I was hoping someone might have the magic answer to say "these two ....... affect the pitch the most."  However, my reeds seem to be a little long for my liking.  A soft quack turns into a slow vibration rather than sound like any hen I've ever heard.  Blow hard/loudly or not at all.  Doesn't take a lot of air to blow at all, so I don't believe I've drilled through the tone channel yet.  

I appreciate the suggestions so far, at least it makes me feel as if I'm working in the right direction based upon the first two suggestions. " Re: Low pitch characteristic "Well, you can always give it away as a deer grunt call.  ;D ;D

" Re: Low pitch characteristic "I believe you're on to something there.  I am now officially a multiple game call maker.  Anyone out there want a deer grunt call.  ;D  Price is cheap, real cheap!

That's the fun thing about this hobby.  You live and you learn.  When you get something right, you just feel that much better about your accomplishment." Re: Low pitch characteristic "I have 2 suggestions

try a narrower reed

try a slightly shorter tone channel.

i had a call with symptoms like you mentioned--mine was caused by the reed leaving the toneboard too far out. once I had it leave at the cork, adjusting for tone was no problem, high or low.

Hope this helps
" Re: Low pitch characteristic First off Hello to all.  I just found this board and it is great.

First suggestion deeper tone channel not longer but deeper.  this will couse your call to be harder to blow but will make the reed vibrate at a harder rate which will give you more rasp.

IF the deeper channel does not do enough try making your tone channel hole 1/64th bigger by using a larger bit. and play with your exahust hole.

Something else I like to do that I have never heard anyone suggest is that I have a friend that he and i share information one of the best things about it is that i can tune a call better from hearing it on the other end with him blowing it.  Try this you would not believe the sounds you can hear and change if you can hear someone else blow the call.

HAPPY HUNTING

NOVEMBER IT TOOOO FARR AWAY Is it possible.... Is it possible to make the reed too wide as to where it's vibrations are actually inhibited by hitting the inside of the barrel/mouthpiece? Re: Is it possible.... "I would say most definately.  I have made some wide reeds, and they werent hitting the inside of the barrel, but I have thought the same way that you are.  
Matt" Re: Is it possible.... "If we believe it's possible, does anyone have an idea on how to see if it is occurring?" Re: Is it possible.... Duju-

I would say that if you are concerned about it (Like I was) then the reed is simply too wide and needs to be narrowed.  Snip-snip and you're set. ;D  Or at least that is how I solved that problem hehehehe.

Matt Re: Is it possible.... "Use a clear acrylic barrel so you can see through it, then put some machinists blue clearance marking goo on the edges.  and blow, assuming there isnt too much and the spit turnis it loose and splatters, youll see fine lines where the reed hit.  Most likely on the end where the vertical travel is longest.  Be VERY sparing with the blue goo, and be prepared for it not to come off, it can really get in to stuff depending on what kind you get.
Wade" What affect does temperature have? "I know that Jason is from the South, and there may be others as well.  So this question goes out to all the callmakers that deal with hot humid summers.

If you make a call in the summer, will the tuning be affected when it comes time for duck season?  Going from 100 degrees with high humidity to 50 degrees and below.  

Since wood moves generally along the grain, do you even consider this during the summer months?" Re: What affect does temperature have? I haven't noticed any significant change in tuning in the calls that I blow from summer to winter.  We generally go from 100+ with high humidity to 50 and below with high humidity  ;D

Last year felt more like fall during duck season...we had ice ONE day the whole season. Re: What affect does temperature have? "Well, being from the state next door from Jason,  I have not noticed any significant difference.  But like was mentioned, our temp didn't hardly fluctuate enopught to bother the wood
" Re: What affect does temperature have? "actually, temperature is a large part of the reason for what makes a "good" wood for duck calls. Coco, ebony, bois d'arc, etc. are all very hard and oily woods. This makes them much less affected by climate changes.

HTH" Welcome ArkBuck Just wanted to say we are glad to have you on board. ;D Re: Welcome ArkBuck Thanks.  i have been hanging around to custom calls chat board for a while and found this one and there seems to be alot more activity and information here i think it will be a great resource.  Jason has done an outstanding job. Re: Welcome ArkBuck "Hi Arkbuck.  I agree, Custom Calls forum was very resourceful there for a while, but it seems as of late that information is scarce.  Not as many answers to questions any more.  This has to rank as one of the best, if not the best, places to find meaningful help for some of the common problems.  A real treasure to those of us who need the help.  BTW, I am amazed at the fact that even after all the posts so far, the environment has maintained a clean environment.  Kudos to everyone!  " Triple reeds????? " ???  I was cruising the internet and happened to see where someone was making and selling triple reed duck calls.  I know there are devout single reeders around here, myself included.  But has anyone ever heard a triple reed?  I can't possibly begin to imagine what the sound would be like.  Better yet, if anyone has one of these, post a sound file.  I'd love to hear the triple reed." Re: Triple reeds????? "Unless I'm mistaken, Sure Shot Game Calls used to offer a triple reed call." Re: Triple reeds????? You are correct...I have an old triple reed from sure shot....my father in law had it before me....not sure how lod it is... Re: Triple reeds????? they kind of sound like a duck with a bad case of smokers cough!  real raspy not much tone.  Lots of air to blow.  Some of the reasons they didnt catch on.  If you look at the sureshot you will see it is a yentzen style call and a big one at that they made it so big to try and alleviate the air volume required to blow it.  I have one that was my dads and I carry it in my blind bag because with a little practice it is a great sounding diver duck call. Laminating "Hi yall, I've been "lurking" for a while checking out the web site etc. Thanks to Jason for such a nice call, I purchased a "coco" a few months ago and I really like it. I've been tinkering with my own calls now for a year or so, and am looking for some advice on making laminated calls. Like...do you sand the pieces before you glue them, or will they do OK right off the planer. how thick do your like your pieces, and what glue to use? Any tips would be appriciated. Thanks...." Re: Laminating if you want to get a true fit in laminating the pieces together dont use the planer it only transfers to flaws on one side to the other. while taking out the rough cut.  if you want to do the best job you can use a jointer to joint the pieces and then they will be absolutely flat and fit together like a glove.  when the pieces come off the jointer there will be no need to sand them because sanding will only alter the plane you have created with the jointer.    You do not have to joint both sides of the material if you joint one side flat you can then use your planer and plane with the jointed side down and that will cause the other side to become perfectly flat.

hope this helps. Re: Laminating "That's great arkbuck.  I know it will be a long long while before I have all the equip to do that.  For now, I'll just stick to what I'm doing.  Hopefully someday I'll get into that stuff a little heavier. :)

Matt" Re: Laminating I don't have a jointer or a planer (yet)  ;D ;D

I cut the pieces on a bandsaw and use a sander to even everything up.  I'm just eyeballing everything.  Sometimes it bites me and The pattern gets a little crooked. Re: Laminating "Jason, you're doning a great looking job with the "eye-balling". I have a jointer and a planer and will attempt it as instructed by arkbuck. Thanks guys, I'll let you know how it turn out...." Topographical maps online " ;) Guys,
      I don't know how many of you use topos to locate hidden, and tucked away honey holes, but I just love to scan the maps.  It is quite fascinating and beneficial to learning an area.  Here is a great site if you want to explore it and it is free. http://www.topozone.com/findplace.asp

Matt  

" Matt Re: Topographical maps online "Not too sure if this is a good topo map, but I have used it very often for scouting roads available for duck hunting.  It is an easy map to use and provides some interesting information.

[url]http://www.thesi.com/map/default800_ie.htm[/url]" Re: Topographical maps online Here is another awesome place to get some Topos
http://www.gisdatadepot.com/catalog/index.html Re: Topographical maps online "Hey guys,  
                also try www.terraserver.com for aerial photos of where you want to hunt. I even got a cool aerial photo of my house. Some of these are a bit old but you can see some cool stuff from these, just put your zip code in the search and click away till you see what your looking for. It will show you things you cant see on a map. They are super when you get permission to hunt some where. Just show the farmer/rancher and they will point out all the best places for you. For example the Lady Doctor I work for has a 30,000 acre ranch and has trouble telling me where to go shoot coyotes. Now I just take a highlighter pen and she inks it in where she sees them, then puts it on the barn door. i look and go get them. Works great for people that are to busy to drive or show you around." reeds "Hey everyone, a newbie to the site and to making duck calls. I was wondering where i can get mylar for reeds and what thickness is the most commonly used?
thanks
woody" Re: reeds "hiya WD,

10 mils is most common. you wanna get it in sheets. i get mine from HUT Products (800)-547-5461. I think the order code is 3035 but ask the salesperson. Do yourself a favor and order a sheet of rubberized cork too. 3/16'' is order number 3037 I'm not sure about  the number for 1/8''.
Welcome to the board and to duck call making. If you haven't already, click thru Jason's "How to make a duck call" tutorial. " lathes "Anyone have any experience with a grizzly lathe? I am looking for a lathe, but since i am a beginer not sure if i want to shell out 300 bucks right now. But i do want a quality machine. Grizzly looks like a good machine and priced right, but want to know what everyone else thinks
thanks
woody" Re: lathes "As you can see in the tutorial pictures, I used to use a small Grizzly lathe.  I think I bought it new for around $120.  I can tell you that it WILL turn a duck call.  But, there will be some compromises that you will have to make.

For the money, I" Re: lathes I agree with Jason.  I started out with a central machinary late and did not take too long to find out i needed a better lathe. I am now using a Delta midi lathe (almost identical to the Jet) and am more than happy with it.  Also you can find these lathes reconditioned on amazon or ebay pretty reasonable and they come with a full factory warranty.

Buck Re: lathes I took Jason's advice about buying good equipment from the start and I'm glad I did. I bought a Mercury mini from woodcraft.com. I paid for it but it is perfect. The one difference it has is a DC motor so speed adjustment are infinite between 120-3600 rpm's.  My advice is start with good equipment and don't get in a hurry. Re: lathes "Judd, I talked to the people at woodcraft, and they told me they felt the mercury mini lathe, was under power for turning ruff wood, and  felt the Jet mini lathe would be better, more power?  Please tell us how the mercury lathe really works." Re: lathes "I havent had any power problems. I've turned coco, acrylic, bolivian rosewood, oak, cherry, and hickory. I keep my gouges sharp and I really dig in at the start: I actually stop the blank about once every 5 or 6 calls. Now I havent done anything bigger than 4x4x6 so I cant say what would happen with bigger pieces. I hope this helps with ur decision. I cant compare it to other lathes since I only looked at a Delta Midi (which had centers out of alignment) at Lowe's-didnt use it or anything. Anyways, I recommend it without reservation for turning duck calls and similar items.


PS welcome to the board Perry! Glad to have you here." Judd Re: lathes "arkbuck-
I too bought a central machinery lathe.  I got mine on ebay several months ago and perhaps yours was better, but mine was awful and made completing a call quite a chore.  I have upgraded and am waiting for the darn thing to arrive at my doorstep (JET MINI)." Re: lathes "got my lathe found it at an auction the other day, a rockwell/delta got a steal on it too  ;D  ;D" Re: lathes "Maybe there are some variations in the central machinery lathes, but I got one that was a bit of over kill for what I was doing, but for the calls, its pretty good.  Im sure a Jet or somethingwould be better, but it works fine for now until I build up my recources after I get my CNC set up in and running.

Wade C
" Glue Well I tried something new last night and wondered if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions.  I have been using gorilla glue to do my laminating and it is hard to work with so I tried some polyurathane glue trying to glue a coco mouth ring on a osage orange call just goofing around.  I glued the pieces up and clamped them together left and came back about 2 hours later to find a strange foam coming out of the joint?????  I was wondering if Poly doesnt coat coco well as i have come to find out will the glue not adhere to it as well.  Just wondering. Re: Glue "The foam is to be expected from a poly glue.  Gorilla glue, being a poly glue will do the same thing.

This stuff doesn't cure in a few hours.  You'll need to leave it clamped for at least 24 hours to get a good joint.  When it's dry, the joint should be every bit as strong as the wood - even when gluing cocobola." Re: Glue i did not know that gorilla glue was a poly glue.  i guess i never read the bottle.  but i never got the foam like i am talking about.  but i guess i should pay more attention next time.  maybe i just got too much glue on the joint.  thanks for the info jason. Re: Glue "you might wanna try TiteBond II. It is a hide glue that goes water proof when dry. I haven't tried it with duck call woods, but with other woods the bond is actually stronger than the wood. Another advantage is shrinkage--when dry it is only 1/10th the volume it was when wet." Re: Glue i must have gotten some bad glue or something because i followed the directions and clamped the pieces for 24 hrs and when i took them off i rounded the piece on the lathe and everything was fine i took it off and thought i would actually check and see if the bond was strong twisted the piece and it broke in the joint like a toothpick.  elmers schoolglue would have held better than that .......   Back to the gorilla Re: Glue "I like Gorilla glue, but I have a hard time waiting 24 hours for each joint to dry.  :-/  

I have also used 5 minute 2 part epoxy.  It is strong and fast, but has a low melting point.  If you generate too much heat (like when sanding, polishing, or drilling), the epoxy will melt and the joint will fall apart.  The melting point isn't so low that it's going to melt hanging from the dashboard of a car or otherwise in normal use." Reed cutting "Does anyone have a neat trick they use to cut their reeds?  Other than purchase an expensive press to cut the material, how do you ensure good straight lines and consistent reed sizess?  

I know, I know.  A pair of scissors and a good eye!  ;D" Re: Reed cutting That's kinda what I was wondering.  I just been using good ol fashioned scissors but each reed is different.  I guess my calls are REALLY custom hehehehe ::)!   Re: Reed cutting I "borrow" my wife's quilting supplies.  She has a rotary razor and a pad she cuts material on that isn't cut by the razor.  Also has a square plastic staight edge to run the cutter along that has multiple grid lines.  Makes uniform and consistant cutting easy.

I expect all this stuff is at wally world in the fabrics dept. Re: Reed cutting "Quonk,
You're closer to that quilting hobby than you think  ;D ;D" Re: Reed cutting I use a paper cutter like they have in school.  You can put a mount a guide with screws into the top for both the width and length.  Cuts them the same every time. Wood "Just a question for everyone.  DO any of you guys have any suggestions for any different types of wood you like to use.  I have used all of the regular species (coco, osage, bocote, etc.) and was looking for something different just for a change of pace.  I was wanting to make a blackwood call for myself and cannot find any african blackwood.  I bought some madagasscar ebony at $75 a board foot and it did not turn out like I wanted.  I want one jet black like you see in a clarinet.  If you have any suggestions or suppliers I would appreciate it.

Buck" Re: Wood "I tried to get ahold of some a while back and ran into dead ends.  Everyone was out of stock.  If I find some, I'll let you know.
Matt" Re: Wood "http://www.righteouswoods.com/

Check them out, its where I get mine" Re: Wood "African Blackwood is VERY hard to find right now, and isn't cheap.

Most of the African Blackwood and Ebony is picked over by the instrument makers before the retail wood suppliers can get hold of any.  In other words, the good stuff with no fi" Re: Wood "Hey ArkBuck, what about Lignum Vitae?  I hear it gets light surface checking when its finished and dries a little, but it almost adds to the look.  Only thing about it though is it has to be dry dry dry dry dry DRY.  I have seen a few pics of some a guy in MI makes that are really cool! and he says they sounds absolutely awesome.  SOme otheres I dink with or have dinked with that I liked a lot are Pink Ivory, Madagascar Ebony (try http://www.anexotichardwood.com/ or I have some in 2x2 aqnd 1.5x1.5 I could sell ya), Purple heart, Bloodwood, Madagascar ROsewood, Bubinga, Honduran ROsewood, Birdseye maple, Tamarisk (yeah like what grows in the riverbottoms at least up here in CO), Zebra Wood, Tulip Wood, and Koa (which I havent tried yet)
Im working on tring to find some really exotic woods too, I sort of want to get a 'collector'sseries lined up.
Have a good one
Wade" Minimum Tools Required "This question is to all of you who know more than a beginer like me.  What are the basic tools I will need to get started?  I know I'll need a lathe (I've already looked at the Delta Midi) and a drill press, but what else?" Re: Minimum Tools Required "Welcome to the board Wislnwings!

Although the barest of essentials are a good sharp knife and a drill.  I think the lathe and drill press are a good start.  however, you might be able to avoid the drill press as long as you have a drill a" Re: Minimum Tools Required I agree that is about all you need.  Be careful with the drill press issue.  You need a press with at least a 3 1/4  inch stroke.  a shorter stroke will make you have to move the table too much and get your hole too far out of center.< Re: Minimum Tools Required "Don't forget turning tools.  You don't have to buy a complete set.  I rarely use more than three.  I use a 1/4" spindle gouge for most everything from roughing in to final shaping.  I use a skew for forming the lip, smoothing out " Re: arkbuck OUCH!  :o

And to think...I was just about to ask arkbuck to moderate the new safety forum!   ;D ;D Jason Re: Minimum Tools Required Thanks for the info. Wood Blanks What size blanks do you order/start with to make your calls? Re: Wood Blanks "I usually get 2x2x24, but I'm about to try 1.5x1.5. The 2x2 is commonly offered. It depands on the size of your finished barrel. the 24 inch length will give me enough blanks for 3 complete calls or 7 barrels or 5 inserts. It depends on your dimensions. My acrylic comes 1.5" diameter by 12" long. Hope this helps" Re: Wood Blanks are the acrylic blanks cast or extruded? Re: Wood Blanks not sure but I think it is cast acrylic. The finished calls come out clear as glass. I got my acrylic from Hutproducts. Re: Wood Blanks "Cast is the most common and is better to use than extruded.  I can get some for you if you want.

As for blanks of wood, 2x2 has a lot of waste if your call diameter is closer to 1.25" or so.  If you have a mandrel, 1.5" blanks have enough meat to em if the bore is centered.
Wade
" mandrels? "ok got my lathe found it at an auction. ;D a rockwell/delta came with 18 turning tools, 4 face plates, 1 live centers, 2 spur centers, 1 fixed center all for 175  thought it was a good deal. So I am just practicing right now, turning a few small blocks (i found out i need to do a little sharpening). I am ready to do a trial run for a call. I drilled my hole and made what i thought was a decent mandrel except when i got almost thru roughing out one end started to wobble pretty bad. Maybe i dont really understand mandrels i am not sure. What does everyone use for a mandrel (steel, graphite, wood)? And can someone either email me a pic or details of one and explain it?
thanks
woody  " Re: mandrels? "I had the same guy that built my jig make me a mandrel, I'll get the digi cam out and see if I can take a few pics.  I used a wood mandrel on the first few calls and it'll work, but the steel is by far easier to use, cost me 40 bucks, but worthe every penny" Re: mandrels? Guys I wanted to let you know about a new toy I have found.  A man by the name of Wade Carpenter at webfootcustomcalls.com has started making a mandrel system that is absolutely out of this world.  It is the best aid I have found in a long time.  the mandrel comes with two mounting options a crush lock and a pin lock and optional recessed areas in the mandrel  these are great because they allow you to get all the way to every side of the call and with a small enough tool you can round the inside of the mouth piece.

I dont get anything for this it is just when I find something this good it needs to be shared wade deserves alot of credit for coming up with the system. Re: mandrels? "I definitely don't have the most innovative or expensive system, but I use the mandrel systems offered by Hut Products.  Never had a problem with any of them and seem to be very easy to use.  The only modification I made was to switch the size of rubber tubing they send with the barrel mandrel.  I think they use a 3/4" O.D. tubing and I wanted 5/8" O.D.  I called Kent Elastomer and they sent me a free sample of what I needed. ([url]http://www.kentelastomer.com/[/url]) Their free sample was about 20 feet, and you only need about 2 inches until the rubber wears out.  Anyway, it is easy to use and allows you a small enough opening that you can round off the mouthpiece without hitting your tools against the mandrel.  

Other mandrels may be better, but I have really become quite addicted to my little setup.  " Re: mandrels? "Hey Jug you mean you actually know how to use one of those digi cams?  ;D  ;D did you get a chance to take one yet?

I looked at webfootcustomcalls. looks pretty interesting, but i am not sure what the difference is in each?

i couldnt find the duck call mandrel in hut. all i saw was the pen turning one and the one for the tone board.

woody" Re: mandrels? "Duju, what size tubing did that place send you....basically what I am asking is what is the inside diameter? I also use the hut system and like the way it works....but I had to engineer their tubing to make it work with my 5/8 barrels also.
I would like to order some from that company if you can tell me what size I need....thanks" Re: mandrels? "Waterdog,

Try the following links to hut to find the mandrels I use.  The first link does not show a picture but rather describes the mandrel.  I believe it's the first item on the page and is only $6.49.  It is a pen mandrel that they have modified for the duck calls.

[url]http://www.hutproducts.com/duckhut.html[/url]

This link will take you to the page for the stopper/insert mandrel from hut that I use.  There is a picture and I believe it's the second item on the page and it costs $39.99.

[url]http://www.hutproducts.com/DuckCustom.html[/url]

WestArkDucker,

The inside diameter of my tubing is 1/4".  I called Kent Elastomer and told them I needed latex tubing with an inside diameter of 1/4" and an outside diameter of 5/8" and they took care of me." Re: mandrels? hey if any one wants one of those hut stopper mandrels I have one I will prctically give away.  I dont use it any more.  Too hard for me to get the channel to come out in the center of the toneboard.  I have the mandrel and the m1 to m2 adapter.  email me or send a message if you want it. Re: mandrels? "I noticed a question on the mandrel by WaterDog.  They are all similar.  the main difference is the way the blank is locked on the mandrel.  The locking principles are on the website (http://www.webfootcustomcalls.com/tools/mandreldesc.html).  There are three basic mandrels, and from there the sizes are custom to each individual.  One has only the pin lock, one has only the crush lock, and the MVS had both integrated into one.  Otherwise they are very similar.  I hope that helped distinguish the mandrels.
Wade

Hopefully when ArkBuck gets healed up, he'll have more info on his and what he thinks of it.  Take care of that hand ArkBuck!!
" Re: mandrels? "duju, thanks I will give them a call !" Re: mandrels? "I know I'm lucky to have a machine shop forman of 40 years as my dad, but let me tell you about the mandrel I came up with. It's very simple, kind of along the lines of the hut tone board mandrel. I get the machine shop guy (my dad) to turn a piece of 3/4" tool steel 3.5"(+ #2 MT) long on a taper of (left to right), 0.700, in the center it's 0.625, and on the right end it's 0.615. On the left side is the #2MT. You just put it in your lathe, put the blank, drilled to 5/8" (0.625) on it, and put your live center on it, and away we go....I'll try and get some pics. It works great....Kim...." Re: mandrels? "Well, I've been debating about if I should post this or not...

Guys, the only mandrel that I have ever used to turn a call consists of a 5/8" x 6" piece of dowel rod that I bought at the lumber store. Actually the rod was 4' long, so I figure I've got around at least a 2 or 3 year supply of mandrels for a whoppin' $1.12 (plus tax, now.)

And I'm not sure that I would have it any other way...
works great! How's that for backwoods engineering! ;D" Re: mandrels? "Here's another Idea:

Take a 3/8 peice of threaded rod about 7 to 8 inches long.  Also on either end center punch and drill a 1/8 hole and then a 1/16 hole about 3/16 deep.

Then here the tricky part, you'll need a metal rod with a 3/8 ho" Polishing brass "Once you have polished your brass, how do you keep the brass polished?  Do you finish the polished brass to protect it?  If so, what do you use?" Re: Polishing brass "I have just been using what I have been finishing with, DEFT.  That's because there was a thread on here earlier about finishes, and that's what was recommended.  So I tried it and liked it.


What are you using to glue the brass band on?  That's what I have been struggling with.

Matt


" Re: Polishing brass "I've tried different things in the past that didn't work.  I've recently read some posts here and in other forums regarding Gorilla Glue.  I've tried it a couple of times, so far so good.  Still waiting to see how it holds up after a couple of trips to the blind.  " Re: Polishing brass "I use JB WEld if its on something I can hide or sand off the excess.  Otherwise I use that two part archery epoxy.

As for finishing the brass, if its a deft cover call I do the same as Matt, if its a wax finish, I just leave it natural and when it tarnishes I just give it a good buffing and the rewax the whole call.  Seems to last quite a while.

Wade
" Re: Polishing brass I found a new product at woodcraft it is a brass lacquer. it is specially formulates to coat brass and it chemically reacts and bonds to the brass works pretty good so far.

In my opinion there is only one way to glue a band on the call turn the ba wood supply "I'm trying to get the wood I'll be needing for awhile and am looking for some osage orange 1 1/2 inch sticks.  The supplier I normally use is currently out of it.  Also, someone that currently has a little African Blackwood.

BTW, Berea currently has some Coco from Panama that looks great.  Super grain configuration and kind of an orange color with burgundy graining and opposed to the darker stuff I have been getting (I suppose from Mexico).   If you use it though, you have to let it sit for a couple days after turning it before applying any finish.  The pale purple exposed when turning will oxidize to the orange color it started with." quonk Re: wood supply Try hogans hardwoods Jacksonville AR they have a pallet of osage in 1.5x1.5 4' lengths.  if you call them you might get them to sort through and send you some workable material.  That is the only osage that I know of.  But you might also try grover knoll in clarendon AR he has had some in the past.  you can get his email off of the custom calls website. Re: wood supply Thanks Arkbuck. That's not far from here.  I'll give them a try. quonk Re: wood supply "quonk,

i found a supplier that has an abundence of african black wood.  i have ordered alot of it and will be able to sell some or i can give you the direct information to you or anyone interested.  email  me if you want the info. ;D

arkbuck" Re: wood supply Hey Arkbuck please tell me the source of African Blackwood.
I might order some. Thanks ;D Re: wood supply www.gilmer.com

gilmer wood products Re: wood supply "Man, what a great site!  They have some incredible woods.  

btw, the address is actually www.gilmerwood.com" Jason Re: wood supply sorry bout that
Boxes for duck calls "Hello, I just found this place and have been reading some of the posts.  Looks great.  
I am having trouble finding boxes for my calls.  Can any of you help?  

Thanks, Joe" Re: Boxes for duck calls "Hey Joe and welcome!  I don't know where to get boxes, but I'll bet the owner of your local print shop can point you in the right direction. Hope this helps." Re: Boxes for duck calls "Hey Joe.

Try www.papermart.com  They have a variety of chipboard boxes and also have gift and jewelry boxes.  One of these styles should fit your needs.

I've never purchased from them, but it looks like they can handle just about any type of request." Re: Boxes for duck calls "I've been talking to a box company in Little Rock that makes call boxes for some Arkie duck call makers, the standard lightweght cardboard ones about 5.5 or 6 inches long.  

They said there might be some overruns from his orders this summer for about .50 @.  If anyone is interested, email me.   Should be in a few weeks.

" Re: Boxes for duck calls "Just talked to the guy in Little Rock and he hasn't received any orders from his usual customers, so no overruns available at this time.  

If anyone needs a bunch or several people want to go together he will make the minimum of 1000 at around $.85@ (different thatn the $.50 quoted before, inflation I suppose).  If you have an Echo box it's just like that, two piece (sliding square sleave) and about 5 1/4" long and 1 3/4" on the side.

Place is Acord Packaging and tele is 501/455-0000.  " quonk Brass Tubing Sources? Hey guys:  Where do I find a couple good sources for reasonably priced brass tubing for bands?  1 1/4" OD with .065 thickness.  Thanks in advance!  I am a new call maker.

Re: Brass Tubing Sources? "Good question,

I've recently started tinkering with call making and have been using scrap items (ie, brass) in my own shop.  Problem being I'm starting to run out and have been wondering about the same question?

Any help would sure be great, even a website to point me in the right direction.

Thanks

PS Great Resource guys keep it up!!" Re: Brass Tubing Sources? Check out www.onlinemetals.com

They will have what you need.   Re: Brass Tubing Sources? "Thanks Jason,

Mark" Bloodwood "Anybody have any experience with Brazilian Bloodwood for callmaking?  I've turned a few lately, but haven't yet stuck the inserts in the jig and tried to make them quack.

It turns easy, smells good, seems pretty dense, and looks decent.  Wondering mostly about sound quality campared to cocobolo, bocote, etc., and also about any finish problems.



" Re: Bloodwood "I've turned one recently and it came out fairly well.  I think my toneboard pattern/jig still needs work, but I took a chance and turned one regardless.  Sounded decent and finished with Deft.  Really gorgeous when it was done.  Looked just like someone cut your finger and dripped ruby red blood all over it.(I know it sounds gruesome, but honestly it's the only comparison I can make)  A truly gorgeous call.  I'll definitely try another one." Re: Bloodwood Bloodwood is one of my favorites.  It is somewhere between Osage and coco on the loudness scale but holds a tone very well.  it is one of my favorites because of the way it looks when it is finished with deft it almost glows.  It is a member of the rosewood family so you cant go wrong Re: Bloodwood "My personal and favorite call has a bloodwood keg.  Not quite as hard as cocabolo, but its good ducky sounding wood.  Its the call Im building a CNC jig from.  I love the stuff, but my problem is it smells like coconut when you get it hot, and abou tmake me gag, I hate coconut.  But other than that, I love it to death.  " Monkey Pod Wood Ever seen a call made from Monkey Pod wood from I think Hawaii?  I saw one and the sound was unbelievable.  Must be a really hard wood. mylar A .010 ive found a great source for mylar A.  approx 19 x 29 inches for only $2.80.  I ordered 10 sheets for $28!!!  Sounds great! Re: mylar A .010 Got any contact info for us?  Thanks Re: mylar A .010 "yes the company name is GE Polymershapes and can be contacted at www.gepolymershapes.com  They have locations at different cities.  I called Greenville, SC @803-254-0550.  Ask for Dave.  The sheets I received were 19" x 29" for only $2.80 each.  Hope this helps someone!" Re: mylar A .010 "I've looked at the GE polymer shapes website before, but I was looking for colored acrylic at the time.  They only have clear cast acrylic, but I never even thought to check on mylar sheet.  Sounds like a deal.  Ten sheets would last me a lifetime (well almost)  ;)" Mystery "I stumbled accross a dandy online video the other day...
Rick Dunn, (a veteran authority on callmaking) was nice enough to film a Realplayer video of him making one of his Echo calls.

(It's a two part video.)
http://www.thesi.com/duckhuntingvideo1.html

Only thing is my internet connection speed doesn't allow for a very good picture. Can somebody tell me what that handy-dandy thing is he's using to ream down his insert to the correct diameter every time. It would make life so much easier..." Re: Mystery It is a 5/8" box wrench.