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Re: Mystery "Well, I can't get the videos to load, but I would guess that he is using a ring tool.  Woodcraft sells an adjustable one that would work.

If Rick is really using a 5/8" wrench, then I have an even greater respect for him.  I love backwoods engineering. ;D

Dang, I wish I could see these videos.  >:(" Re: Mystery "I couldn't get the videos to load either, but I like the suggestion about the 5/8 box wrench so much, I tried it!!  Let me tell you it's not fancy but it works and gives me an insert that has a consistent diameter and allows for easy tapering to give a tight seal.  Thanks for the tip." Re: Mystery "Seems like all of us are having problems loading the video.  I could not get it to load either.

I was in Rick's shop about 2 years ago.  He graciously helped me with some problems that I was having on the calls that I make.  At that time he was using the 5/8 box wrench.  He may be using something else now, but that is what he was using at that time.  I have been using one ever sinse and it works like a charm.

If 5/8 is not quite large enough just take a file and open it up to the proper size." Re: Mystery call me stupid. but i am not understanding this whole 5/8 box wrench thing.  could someone please explain Re: Mystery "OK I'll Try,

When I started turning stoppers, I got a little bit of taper which some may argue is OK but I needed a constitent stopper that would fit in my calls tight.  So I started to turn my insert peice down and when I'm just about to the diameter of the tone board (5/8 inches).  I pick up the open end of a 5/8 box wrench and apply pressure and it cuts the toneboard insert to the proper diameter.  Use your normal turning tools to finish the insert part that is exposed and sand well.  Works great.

Mark" Re: Mystery "I do not use the box wrench to cut the wood.  I use it as a guide to get the proper diameter of the stopper.  When the stopper end is to the proper size I slide the wrench down the stopper, with lathe running, until it lightly scores the wood.  Then I remove the wood with my scraper or rough sand paper repeating the process to get to the lock-up point.  

I will have to try removing the wood with the wrench.

Thanks!" Re: Mystery "I tried the open end wrench thing, and was surprised to find that it works great.    :o
I sharpend one point of the wrench and dulled the other.  I did the same thing with a 7/8" wrench except that I also opened it up to just short of 1".  Now I can cut the tenon for the brass band to the exact diameter in a matter of SECONDS, where it used to take a long time to get a precise fit.

Cool.  8)
" Re: Mystery "The Brass band idea is great, I'll have to try it next.

Mark" Polishing Acrylic "Hiya Fellas,

Looking for advice on polishing the 5/8 bore thru the barrel. Seems no matter what I do, I'm gonna get some streaks in there. All help is appreciated." Re: Polishing Acrylic I chuck a modified gun cleaning rod into a power hand drill and use it to spin the sandpaper.  Use wet/dry automotive sandpaper for best results.  Keep it wet and rinse the water out when it gets milky.

I wet sand with various grits starting with about 320 (220 if the barrel is blistered from letting the drill bit get too hot).  Step through the grits up to 1500.  Then polish with tripoli compound on a cloth.

Re: Polishing Acrylic I use a wooden dowel (3/8") and cut a slit in the end with my band saw.  I slide a piece of extra fine drywall sandpaper (the stuff that looks like mesh) in the slit so about 1/2" is exposed on each side.  I then put this in the drill chuck that is mounted to the head stock of my lathe.  I turn this as slow as my lathe will go (200rpm).  Slide the barol on and sand untill smooth.  Then I have the same size dowel with cheesecloth wraped around it.  I put Brasso on the cloth and polish.  Comes out clear as spring water.

Hope this helps.    :) Re: Polishing Acrylic OOPS!  That should be "barrel." ;D Re: Polishing Acrylic "New to the group and just getting started building calls but I have had some experience with acrylics, so I hope this helps.
I machine a lot of acrylic at work I have found that every time you change sanding grit also change direction you sand. Spin it slow on you lathe then stop and hand sand in and out the cross sanding will help remove the small scratches
and less polish will be needed. I use Marvel mystery oil when sanding and Nova plastic polish #2 & #3 for my finish polishing.  
Tony" quack to grunt "I've got an assortment of inserts that I can't make work right for a variety of reasons (tone channel too long, bad bore hole, etc.).

Was wondering what it would take to convert them to deer grunters.  I'd probably turn them down some more and put a flex tube on them.  I could shorten or alter the tone channel, if needed, with wood putty or JB.  

Will the 0.10 mylar work or something thicker needed? Shape, etc, etc?     " Re: quack to grunt "I've never tried to make a grunt call, so I'm not speaking from expereince.  I would assume to get the low floppy sounding vibrations, you would have to have a long reed.  Wouldn't a duck call toneboard be too short?" Re: quack to grunt "I was thinking of effectively shortening the tone channel anyway by using a small o-ring ahead of the cork, which could also be moved about to adjust the pitch.  Mostly wondering about the mylar thickness and length. " New Duck Call Database "I've been passing time at work by building a database containing information about all of the calls I have made to date.  

This will allow me to do some neat things with the website like a database driven catalog with realtime updates when a call is sold online.  This hasn't been implemented yet, but will be coming soon.

What IS available now is a Duck Call Search Page where you can enter keywords (wood type, reed type, band type, etc) and the page will pull up the specific results you asked for including description, date made, serial number, and an image of the call (if available).

Right now, the page is more of a novelty than anything else, but I will eventually update the description to include some history of the call if I can remember.

Go here to check it out:  http://www.missmallard.com/searchcalls.php

Let me know what you think.

Jason" Re: New Duck Call Database "Jason

Great Idea, the page looks like it will work well.  Any advise for a new call maker (me) who feels like he's just about ready to start offering/selling calls to people.

Thanks
Mark" Re: New Duck Call Database "I'll give it a shot.

I think a website is extremely important if you want to get noticed quickly.  This was an easy thing for me, since I am a network administrator in my "real" job.  It may be more difficult if you aren't around computers all the time.

There are millions of hosting companies who will register your domain name and give you space on their webserver for as low as a dollar a month.

Ebay is a good place to sell a few calls and get your name out to the public.  Some folks sell almost exclusively on Ebay.  

I've found that word of mouth sells the most calls.  If you make a good product, folks will spread the word." How can you tell... "when you've made your tone channel too long.  I can tell when it's too short because the call is harder to blow and the reed clamps down on the board.  If I get it about where I think it ought to be, I can usually get the call to sound OK by whacking around on several reeds.  Just wondering what sound or reed vibration I can consistantly expect before I say "whoops, went too far with that one"." Re: How can you tell... "When the channel is drilled too far, you lose efficiency and it will require a lot of air to make the call quack." Re: How can you tell... Once you get a call that sounds good to you put the drill bit in the hole and then put a drill bit stop on the bit.  This will let you drill the hole the same depth each time and takes the guess work away. Re: How can you tell... "Thanks, Joe.  Good suggestion, but right now my inserts don't all go in the jig precisely the same depth, so I finish boring them out with the insert still in the jig with just enough of the scrap off to expose the top of the drill hole.  I have a mark on the jig that I stop at.

And Jason, sorry about the redundancy.  I was reading through some old posts looking for something else and found you had answered this for someone else already (page 3).  You must have found it too, cause you answered it the same way both times  ;D" Re: How can you tell... "I didn't realize it had been asked and answered.  If I answered the same way both times, I must be right  ;D

" Reamer anyone? Hello everyone.  I have a question as far as drilling the barrel goes.  Does anyone use a smaller diameter bit and go back with a reamer to clean it out?  I didn't know if the bit cleans the barrel out enough or if using a reamer is standard?  Thanks. Re: Reamer anyone? "I use the standard .625" bit on wood, but when I do acrylic, I use a 39/64" bit and go in with a .625" reamer and lots of coolant/oil.  Workslike a charm.  If I get a bit that cust a few thousandths small, Ill just clean up the wood blanks with a reamer.  Works slick and is very clean.
Wade
" Re: Reamer anyone? "Thanks Wade.  The reason I ask is I am trying to find a 45/64 reamer.  This is very hard to come by.  I can either keep trying to find one or just use a 45/64 bit.  I know that won't get it real smooth, but right now I don't have many options.  " Re: Reamer anyone? "I can get you a .7031" Straight shank chucking hi speed reamer, I can also get .7020 and .7040 if you are wanting a different size to work up to.  I have a dolid line available for most all of these kind of things.  Depending on the tool material you want the prices vary accordingly.  Let me know Ill have an order going in for stuff here in the next few days.
email me if you are interested.  Were you the one asking about a mandrel for .7031" last week?
Thanks

Wade
" Drilling Acrylic "Hey guys, Im completly new to duck call building. I've been messing around with acrylic and have been having some problems. Whats the trick to drilling acrylic. My bit and acrylic get hot and sieze up when drilling. What the trick? Thanks for any help." Re: Drilling Acrylic "You have to use some type of lubricant.  I use transmission fluid.  Start the hole and when you get it about 1/4" deep put the fluid in the hole.  Drill as slow as your press will go, and keep adding fluid.  I try to keep the hole about 1/2 full.  Remove small amounts at a time.  If you are drilling acrylic that you can see through watch closely and if the shavings start coming out white stop and put more fluid in the in the hole.

Hope this helps." Re: Drilling Acrylic "Y'all might find this to be interesting reading.

Trouble is, I can't find a bit with the proper grind for plastics in anything larger than 1/2.

http://www.missmallard.com/Acrylic_Tech_Brief_DRILLING.pdf

You might have to right click on the link and save the target before you can open the PDF file." Volume!!! "Hi Yall, I have a very general question, that has many specific answers...I'm happy in general with the tone, or amount of "ducky" or raspy sound that I get from my calls but I consider them a "timber" call because of the lack of volume or loudness that I can get. What can I do to retain the "tone" but increase the volume or sound level of my calls? I really don't want to make it "harder" to blow, (decrease the back-preassure)etc., I just want more volume...." Re: Volume!!! What kind of material are you using? Re: Volume!!! "Jason, Usually its Coco, maple, or purpleheart. By the way, you're acrylic calls look great...." Re: Volume!!! "Have you tried either back boring the end of the keg, using a bigger tone channel or deepening the tone channel?  Those are a couple of places to look, but keep in mind those modifications will affect the amount of air it takes to blow em to a certain degree.

Good luck
Wade" Re: Volume!!! "Wade, I haven't tried to enlarge the channel. I"ll give that a try...." Re: Volume!!! "I use a stepped bit to increase the end of the tone channel, and many of the guys here use a reemer, try that and it should make them louder." Re: Volume!!! "Thanks Guys, the deeper channel worked wonders.... :)" Barrel "First of all I want to say hi to everyone as I'm a newbie!  I've been frequenting this forum for months and have put togeather the mojority of the tools I will need.  I have learned a great deal, THANKS!!!!

Now for my question.  Does anyone have any suggestions for sanding the inside of the barrel?  Thought someone might have a few tricks that would simplify this.  Thanks for the help!  ???" Re: Barrel I don't usually sand the inside of the barrel unless it is especially rough (like a burl usually is) or is transparent acrylic.

I use a modified gun cleaning rod chucked into a handheld powerdrill to spin sandpaper strips or 3M scotchbrite pads.  Works great. Low priced wood "I'm aware of most of the common/preferred woods that are used.  I'm curious about Padouk, Bubinga, and Purpleheart.  The reason: Grizzlyoutlet.com has some 2" x 2" X 24" turning stock very cheep.  Padouk: $2.50 each
                         Bubinga: $3.25 each
                         Purpleheart: $1.95 each

I figured that at minimum it would be good, low cost wood to practice on.  Let me know what you guys think." Re: Low priced wood "I've used pruple heart for footing arrows....it's very hard, straightgrained.  It will make a beautiful barrel if the inserts dont work out. I'm gonna go order some of each. The knowledge you gain from turning those blocks is easily worth more than the cost. IF they sound good, so much the better. P.S. You can always turn a chess set out of PH.<----great gift idea.

Hope this helps.

" I Just made my First Call!  Whoopee!!!!!! " ;D  Hey guys, I finally got everything in place and working order:  lathe, jig, press, band saw, mandrell, etc and made my first barrell and insert.  The moment of truth arrived when I drilled the 1/4" hole to the proper depth and put in the mylar reed.  It Blew Great!!!  I am pumpedl.  Thanks to everyone here for your help in this forum." Re: I Just made my First Call!  Whoopee!!!!!! "congrats BigLake! Welcome to the disease :)  What disease? It blew great, but I'll bet you're already thinking of ways to improve it. Seeking perfection is the disease. Of course, this particular disease is not a bad thing.

WTG and keep 'em quacking." Re: I Just made my First Call!  Whoopee!!!!!! Making it look good is a piece of cake. Making it sound good is another thing...congratulations. Enjoy.... Blackwood "Just wondering do any of you have any problems tuning your african blackwood calls?  I can make a call out of coco bloodwood osage and have gotten it down to where i can tune them with usually only one reed.  the last 3 blackwood calls I have made have taken about 1.5 hours a piece to tune and countless reed replacements?  I am doing everything exactly like the rest of the calls but something is not right.  I wind up playing with the backpressure and even modifying the soundboard sometimes.  the main problem I have is not the quack or hail or comeback but a distinctive squeak in the feed chuckle.  none of the other woods do this squeak.  Help please,  ???i'm frustrated." Re: Blackwood "Ive never noticed a difference in the wood having that kind of effect.  THen again Ive only made one ro two of ABW, and mine are all hand filed so they are not identical so its hard to say.  Usually when the reed lays down like that the radius on the end of the ramp is not quite sharp enough or it starts too late.  Has your tone channel position changed by chance?  Are there any slivers or burrs sticking up to hit the reed?  Um  I dunno, its hard to say.  If you continually get stumped and do get it figured out, let me know and maybe we can look em over via pictures or something.

Wade
" How long to make an acrylic call Just curious on how long it takes you guys to kick out an acrylic call from start to finish. I'm talking about total time worked on call. I made a couple of barrels soo far and it seems to be real time consuming. If I could only get the center hole drilled out faster. Seems that you just have to go slow to avoid blistering the inside. Thanks guys. Re: How long to make an acrylic call I've never gone from start to finish in one sitting so I don't know exactly how much time it takes to make any of my calls.

I would estimate that it takes about 5 hours to do a complete acrylic call.  Drilling the barrel and polishing add a good bit of time to the whole process.
Re: How long to make an acrylic call i've never timed but I estimate it at twice the time it takes to do a wood call.  Now I understand why acrylic calls cost so much more ;) Re: How long to make an acrylic call "Most acrylic calls are cnc machined RNT, Big Guy's and many others have some machine shop turned them.
I have been a machinist for over 15 years. I have cut a lot of acrylic on both manual lathes and cnc. after reading Judd's post I did some figuring out some of the cost. Actually it doesn't cost that much to make acrylic calls. I called a good friend that runs a shop with a couple of cnc lathes, he told me that the shop rate is 55.00 an hour less materials. I sent him a blueprint of a goose call im working on. He wrote the program on his Mazak lathe and it said that it would take 3.5 min per barrel and 2.5 min on the stopper so that is 17 barrels an hour and 24 stoppers an hour. So barrels will run $3.23 each and $2.30 each for stoppers. so just for machining you will have $5.53 invested less materials. So big ball figure there is $10 to 15 invested in each $125.00 call.

Tony " Re: How long to make an acrylic call "okie, do those times include polishing? Seems to me that it couldnt, but I'm no machinist." Re: How long to make an acrylic call No polishing was not figured in to the times. Running acrylic on a cnc with and extreme amount of coolant and the right tooling there should be very little to no polishing. When you machine acrylic you use the old style tool steel and grind your tools to a very fine point.   Problem drilling hole in wood "I finally got my 3 jaw chuck today.  I ran into a problem I am having trouble working out.  I put my tapered jacobs chuck into the tailstock and started drilling the wood in the 3 jaw chuck.  Problem is, when the bit gets far enough in the wood it gets hung and the the jabobs chuck on the taper starts spinning.  Dang 3 jaw chuck spun off the threads and hit the concrete.  How do it keep the jacobs chuck from spinning on the morse taper?  Any help is much appreciated." Re: Problem drilling hole in wood "That happened to me once...before I could turn the lathe off, the wood broke loose from the 4 jaw chuck and the entire thing...insert, bit, jacob's chuck (all stuck together) came flying off in my direction.  Lucky for me, it missed.

Now that you know it can happen, you've got to be careful to avoid it because it can be dangerous.

I jam my chuck into the tailstock tightly, then twist it until I can't move it anymore, but that's only part of the solution.  Take small bites at a time then back the bit out to clean it.  This will keep the shavings from binding up in the bore hole and hopefully keep you from getting a hole the size of a jacobs chuck through your head." Online catalog - databasde driven "I finally updated the online catalog so that it pulls entirely from the database now.  When I make a new call, all I have to do is add it to the database, and it will show up in the catalog.  If one is sold or on order, it is automatically removed from the catalog after I enter the order into the database.

It will be MUCH easier to keep up to date than the old way...especially if I can get with the program and start making a bunch of calls again.

I realize that you guys aren't really my target market, but I'm pretty proud of the way it turned out and I wanted to share it with you.   8)" Re: Online catalog - databasde driven How many calls do you sell off of your site.  I have my domain name and my site designed (Almost) and am going to put it up soon but I am having trouble keeping up with all of the orders I am getting from freinds and freinds of freinds and so on. &nb Re: Online catalog - databasde driven "Jason, you've got a great site here. I know many of us have learned from it. Like others, If I ever get caught up with orders from "word of mouth" I'd like to have a site of my own. I don't see other call makers as "competitors", but as collegues. Thanks for the time and effort....Kim...." Re: Online catalog - databasde driven "Jason- your site is simply great!  It was mentioned before that you have helped many, and I am one of the many.  Thanks Matt" Re: Online catalog - databasde driven "Who's got the best deal on webhosting?
(sounds like a simple question, don't it!?)

I'll be glad when Stanard gets this whole website stuff down pat. Maybe he'll post us all a tutorial on that subject.  ;D

(and he wonders why his production is down! He's too busy messin' with all of us!)  ;)" Re: Online catalog - databasde driven "I definitely have too many irons in the fire, but this website shouldn't really count as one of them.  I make most of my posts, answer most of my callmaking related emails, and make most changes to the website while I am at "work".   :)

Now, my production here at the office  ::) that's a different story.

I wouldn't count on a website tutorial.  I work with computers all day long, and Making duck calls (or talking about making duck calls :) ) is what I'd rather be doing.

This website is hosted at www.omnis.com
The price is right, but the support is lacking.  Overall, the hosting service is pretty good.  There have only been a few times when things have slowed down at their data center or when servers were rebooted during the daytime.  It would cost a LOT more to find a service that completely satisfies me." Re: Online catalog - databasde driven guy i too work at a computer company and have a friend that has his own server and will host a site for 20 a month and it is all you can eat no bandwidth or email limit.  email me if you are interested. Jason....question I noticed in your pictures on how to make a duck call you were using a reamer.  I have been trying to find one like that.  Where did you get it? Re: Jason....question I've had it for a long time...not sure why or where I bought it.  I have seen them at the local ACE hardware though. Re: Jason....question "If you can't find them locally, I think I got mine in a set of reamers at Grizzly.  They have some aggressive teeth, so hang on of you ream the insert by hand.

I've got a little spade bit tapered reamer with a 1/4 inch pilot shaft on the front that I like better.  It doesn't grab the wood like the other one and the pilot insures that the bore opening stays centered.  I think I got it from Hut Products with some other stuff." Re: Jason....question "The one I use is really more of a wood rasp than a reamer.  Yeah it does have aggressive teeth, but they plug quickly...especially with blackwood and cocobola.  So it doesn't leave an extremely rough finish." drying green wood I'm going to cut a couple of Osage Orange trees this winter and take some of the trunk to a saw mill to get some turning squares made.  Curious if anybody has some information on:

1-How long they should air dry before turning into calls.
2-The waxy stuff they put on the ends to avoid splits.   Re: drying green wood Quonk here is a couple of web address that you might find useful for air drying and green lumber is end-sealed with either paraffin wax or proprietary end-seal.
(Wow I really did learn something from dad)

Air Seasoning (Drying) of Wood
http://muextension.missouri.edu/xplor/agguides/forestry/g05550.htm

I. Home Drying Lumber
http://www.ianr.unl.edu/pubs/forestry/g60.htm#dtac Osage Orange source After reading and replying to quonk's drying green wood I thought of a posable source for aged osage orange wood. Has anyone ever cut and tried to turn an old hedge post? Re: Osage Orange source I wish I could find some.

It's supposed to be great for duck calls.  Especially the part that's been in the ground for years...it turns green from age and exposure.

The old fencerow behind my house used cedar posts. Re: Osage Orange source "A place in Jacksonville is supposed to have some, I called the other day and they asked me how much I wanted, if your intrested holler and I'll go get some and send it to ya." lathe? "Hi Folks:

I turned a couple calls in wood shop in high school, and thought that it was really fun. (I basically cloned a Faulks call a cuple of times).  I would like to play with turning a few more now that i have "grown up" some more.  Of course, now I don't have access to a free wood shop with all the power tools in the world.  What is a good place to get a small "hobby" lathe to start turning a few barrels and inserts?  And what would one cost?

Thanks,
GC" Re: lathe? "I think I can help you with this I started with a cheap lathe, ($75) mainly because I did not know if I could do it. That was some 50 calls ago. So my advice would be to buy a good lathe to start with. Not long after I made my first few calls the motor burnt up so I replaced mine with a rigid lathe from home depot $300 new $190 reconditioned. The one I bought was $190. Let me tell you there is a huge difference in quality
between the two lathes, it is much easier and faster with good equipment. Hope I helped  :)" Re: lathe? "Thanks.  Can you pick up the turning tools there, also?" Re: lathe? "HD does have turning tools, but don't expect any help from them...most of the folks at HD don't even know that they sell lathes.

You don't necessarily need a full set either.  A 1/4" gouge and a small skew will do just about all that you need." Re: lathe? "Hey GC,

I use and recommend a Delta Midi. I got mine at sears when they were $100 cheaper than they are now, but they do make a deceint lathe. As far as tools go, I bought Marples, and have never regretted it. Check out Grizzly tools, (Grizzly.com) they have alot of stuff....Kim...." Re: lathe? "Although I havn't bought anything from them yet, I was browsing around at Grizzly.com the other day and was really surprised at the low prices on lathes (and everything else for that matter). They have a variable speed mini lathe on sale for $120 if anyone is thinking about making a few calls, but doesn't want to get in to deep at first.

Heck, thats about the price of one acrylic call these days.
Along with the 1/4" gouge and a skew, you may also want to look at a parting tool. I use mine pretty often. I also have three good flat chisels in different widths that I use regularly, too. Good luck.
" Barrel length "Does anyone make a barrel 2 1/2" long?  I like the shorter barrel, but am unsure if a 5/8 hole will work." Re: Barrel length "Ive made a few shorties on purpose and accident.  Yeah it works, and has a unique sound to it, as long as your keg is short enough to fit in it.
Wade
" Sharpening tools Does anyone have any "backwoods engineering" tips for sharpening gouges? Maybe a few good links to some informative websites?

Some days I find that to be more of a challenge than callmaking itself. ;D Re: Sharpening tools "I've gotten pretty good at freehanding a decent profile on a regular high speed grinder.  Once I have a good profile, I keep it sharp as long as possible by touching it up with a buffing wheel dressed with emory compound.

It's definitely frustrating...if you get the profile wrong, it will catch and ruin the turning." Acrylic where? I was wondering if any of you could tell me were to buy some acrylic rod? I'm having a hard time finding some. I would prefer colored but I also want clear. Thanks for the help.  ;D Re: Acrylic where? i get mine from www.hutproducts.com. i know they have clear and several other colors.

Hope this helps! Re: Acrylic where? email me and ill send you an address to look at some colors and prices.

Wade
I'm in Trouble! "I can see where I'm going to get addicted to this. I love hunting and I love wood working, making calls will combine the two. I build mostly furniture, but I have been looking for smaller projects like this. Jason, you're web site has provided me with a tremendous amount of information, thank you very much. My wife is already frustrated with the time I've spent on "learning the trade" and I haven't even made my first call. any words of wisdom as I get started would be appreciated." Re: I'm in Trouble! "Buy your wife a nice Chimenea( you know one of those outdoor fireplaces)  Cause your gonna scrap a lot of wood.  Other than that patience.  And when youget that first quack, katy bar the door cause you will be really hooked." Cutting Acrylic from a Jig "Guys, whats the easiest way to cut acrylic material from a jig. I'm new at this, and theres got to be an easy way to do it. Thanks in advance." Re: Cutting Acrylic from a Jig Use a very small blade in a band saw and do not force the material it will over heat. the small blade will allow you to back out of the cut easier.  also try and cut as close to the jig as possible to reduce or eliminate filing and sanding. toneboard hump "Seems some of the more well known commercial calls have a toneboard with a slope that rises slightly from the reed seat, peaks near the middle, then slopes downward to the end of the insert.  This contrasts with others that come out straight from the reed seat then sloping downward to the end.

Any thoughts on pros or cons, any difference in sound??" Re: toneboard hump I patterned my toneboard after a board with a hump in it and have made some with a flat board.  the main difference I can tell is that the calls with hump in the board are extremely easy to blow but real easy to overblow.  what i mean is if you Re: toneboard hump "Yup, I'm the blackwood guy.  If your email address is still the same one in the directory, I'll get back with you.  I've been thinking about ordering enough other wood from Gilmer to reach the minimum order limit, but if I don't I'll get in touch with about a few sticks of the blackwood.  I'd probably just be using them for inserts because of their size.  On the ones you ordered what was the general extent of the sapwood inclusion, i.e. would it be a significant part of a finished insert?" Re: toneboard hump There would be no inclusion on the insert.  The sapwood is on the corners only.  I will tell you a little something about gilmer I asked them to go through the 1.5 x 1.5 seconds that I ordered from them and try and find a stick that actually had alot of sapwood because I wanted that 2 toned barrel they sent me several sticks with what they called alot of sapwood by the time you turned it round solid black.  so buy the seconds not the woodwind grade.  yes email is the same email me and I will send you a stick or two I am out of alot of other woods and will be making an order within the next few days if you want to tag onto mine we can work something out. Re: toneboard hump "I may want to jump on board with you on the blackwood, Though Im not wanting very much to start with.  Ill shoot you an email.

Wade" Re: toneboard hump If aanyone is worried about a minimum wood order try  http://www.righteouswoods.com/woodmenu.html Re: toneboard hump its not the minnimum it is the discount you can get ordering in large quantities. strange lock up question I have made several calls for alot of people and ran into a problem this weekend.  I made a call my brother is going to blow in a competition.  He has some dental work in his mouth (he is only 15)  this dental work makes it to where he cannot keep from spitting in the call.  Here is the problem the call sounds perfect I can blow it for hours and no problem.  he blows on it for a while   no problem but after say 1 minute of calling LOCK!  it is not sticking like a valve or anything like that you cannot even blow hard and clear the call.  Is it the saliva problem? and if it is is there anything you can do to prevent or help this until he gets the work out of his mouth? Re: strange lock up question "if you an blow it, it has to be his saliva issue.  try putting rain x on the call it helps to repel the moiture away.  Might work, might not but it has help sticking in the past for me" Re: strange lock up question "Do the acrylic ones do it as well as the wood ones?  If its just wood, try waxing the soundboard surface and buffing it, or the RainX ideas is a good one too.  If the acrylics are doing it to, and the rainx or wax doesnt fix it, then you may have to look at a few more dratic measures.  
Wade
" Re: strange lock up question the deal is it never locks up on me.  but he can blow it and it will lock up you take the call apart and there is a noticeable amount of salival under the reed at the reed seat.  I really dont think it is much of a problem any other way none of I'm about to go postal "here is sthe deal, I have a hardened metal jig, I have a stopper on my bit to drill the same depth every time and a line marked on my jig for the end of the tone channel, I have about 3 inserts now that only make a kinda tink sound, withopout hearing it what could be the problem?" Re: I'm about to go postal "It sounds like there is not enuff are flowing under the reed by the "tink" description. assuming no flat spots, could it be warped reeds?
you may wanna try lengthening the tone channel and reed. or maybe the tone channel depth.


Just throwing out ideas. Hope this helps" Re: I'm about to go postal "Judd, thanks for the suggestions, I went back and did sone more smoothing of the tone board and it helped a ton, went back and was trying it on another call, and now it has a high pitched kazoo sound that locks on highballs,  I don't know if my Karma went bad or what, I had a pretty good run going until this." Re: I'm about to go postal "In order to get a good sound, the entire reed should vibrate from the reed seat.  The kazoo sound might be caused by the reed locking off somewhere farther from the seat so that only a portion of the reed oscillates.  Pull the insert out of the barrel and suck through the exhaust.  Use a mirror to watch what the reed is doing.  

If my armchair diagnosis is correct, the solution would be either a stiffer reed, or shave a little more off of the entire radius.  Eventually, you will hit the point where the reed actually bends far enough that it can easily spring back up.

Flat spots could be a cause as well.  They'll cause the reed to lock over the flat spot, and vibrate only at the tip." what's my prize? " ;D  Thought I'd start a new thread just in case there was a prize for the 100th one.

Since I can't seem to make my calls sound all that good, I'm looking to sharpen their appearance a bit.  Anybody have some suggestions where I can get some of the simpler tools to do checkering?

Also, what's a good method to plane or smooth the edges of the little pieces of contrasting wood so you can glue them together to make the laminates or mozaics without gaps?  Right now I'm using a sander and it works decent, but wondering if there is anything more precise.  " Re: what's my prize? QUONK
I bought my checkering set off of ebay and it works great.  But you think the call making is frustrating try taking a call when you are happy enough with it to checker it and spend two hours scratching on it only to slip and ruin the whole thing.  enough to drive a man to drink. Help with Jacobs chuck "Okay, after listening to some previous posts, I went and bought a Jacobs chuck attachment for my tailstock.  When I tried to bore into my insert, the drill bit was not very stable.  So I chucked the drill bit as deep as I could.  The bit still "wobbles" pretty good.  Is there a special drill bit I should be using or a specific speed setting that helps this problem?

Thanks for any suggestions." Re: Help with Jacobs chuck when you say the bit wobbles do you have the bit in the tailstock or the head stock?  

Where did you get your jacobs chuck?

If you went to a tool supply house they more than likely sold you a chuck and a taper for a drill press.  Now this will work but if you notice on the shaft that fits into your tailstock there will be a "black tab" or a flat area after the taper ends this area needs to be ground off of the taper because it will not allow the taper to go far enough into the tailstock to seat properly.  Other than that make sure your tailstock is locked down and you use your tailstock wheel to drill dont slide the entire tailstock piece.  If all of this is done and the taper is the proper size there will be no wobble.  What are you using to hold your insert?

let me know if this helps or a little more detail and Ill be glad to help.
Buck Re: Help with Jacobs chuck "A sharp, high quality bit will help a lot.

I used to use a "pilot point" which works very well to prevent wandering.  When I was ready to replace it, I couldn't find one anymore.  All I could find was a "brad point" wh" Re: Help with Jacobs chuck "Thanks for the suggestions.

I got the chuck at Sears.  It's a lathe accessory with a MT 2.

Where did you find the "split point" drill bit?  I bet the majority of my problem stems from a non-squared end.

Also, I recently picked up a Nova chuck.  I was turning the stopper with the tapered portion of the insert facing the tailstock which allowed me to ensure proper sizing of the taper.  Then I turned the insert around and placed the tapered portion in the chuck and tried to bore into the exhaust portion of the insert.  Will this method work or is there a better way to turn & bore the insert?" Re: Help with Jacobs chuck "Oops, almost forgot Arkbuck!  I was placing the Jacobs chuck in the tailstock.  I was using the 4 jaw chuck in the headstock to turn the stopper.  So the wood was turning instead of the drill bit." Re: Help with Jacobs chuck "From what Im reading here, I might suspect the headstock and the tailsotck are not exactly aligned.  Sounds like your wobble is is not so much the chuck, the point or the squaredness of the bit, but that the bit is trying to start a bit off center he" Brass Bands "I'm a rookie..........I have found a couple of sources for brass tube / bands on the internet, but there always seems to be a fairly high charge for cutting to length. I've done a ton of woodworking but have never fooled around with metal. Can the tubing be cut on a band saw (or how do you cut it), or should I just pay the cost of having someone cut it for me?" Re: Brass Bands "I have bought it anannd used aa cheap pipe cutter, aand it works fine
" Re: Brass Bands "I dunno where I copied this, it may have been a while back on that "other" message forum. I've not tried them yet, but I thought one of ya'll might and let me know! ;D


[quote]For BRASS BANDS definately call Pampco at 704-728-3227. They will cut your brass to size for you and are extremely helpful and friendly.[/quote]" flatlander Re: Brass Bands "I've always ordered brass tubing from Online Metals www.onlinemetals.com and cut the tubing to size using a pipe cutter.  You shouldn't need anything special, but you'll want to make sure that you get one that has replacable cutting wheels.

When I get the tubing in, I'll cut a bunch of bands and put them in a ziplock bag that I keep in convenient reach of the lathe.

btw, I just received an order from them a few days ago, and I noticed that the prices have gone up a little.  Still, it's worth it to me...they are fast and easy." Re: Brass Bands "Off the subject...
Stitch, I see you are from Oxford, MS.  Are you a student?" Re: Brass Bands I grew up in North Carolina and went to school at Mississippi State. I work in the forest products industry and I do "missionary" work on the side trying to convert these Ole Miss fans. back pressure "OK I need some help with this one guys. I've been trying different things with my back pressure but I'm getting little change in sound.So, I guess what I'm asking is can some one explain how/why back pressure works? Or,Am I making a big deal over nothing?" Re: back pressure "Cody,

I'm no expert, but since it's been almost 2 days without a reply, I thought I would offer my best guess.

In my limited experience, back pressure seems to have a two-fold effect.  

1) The overall function of the call relates to the level of back pressure on the reed itself.  The pressure acts as a type of regulator to control the speed at which air passes through the call and thus the speed at which the reed may vibrate.

2)  With more air passing through the call and an increased exhaust size, volume naturally is also effected.

Keep in mind, there are others on this board with far greater knowledge for the mechanics of duck calls.  I have to play around alot myself to learn and get things the way I want.  This can be a frustrating process, but patience is a virtue and creativity can be rewarding." In need of a used tone board "Ive made turkey calls, now I want to branch out to duck calls. Does anyone have a nice used tone board? for sale or trade?" Re: In need of a used tone board "Haven't heard of any lately.  I know that Hut products sells one on their website, and very rarely one will pop up on ebay.  Best of luck in your search." Re: In need of a used tone board "Don't know anything about it, but there is a jig up for sale on ebay right now.  No picture just a description." Re: In need of a used tone board "over on the refuge forums someone has a jig for sale, check there" message board where is everyone at?  seems no one is posting anymore. Re: message board "kinda what I was wondering myself, I posted a week ago on finishes, and got ZERO replies." Re: message board "I think everyone is scouting for ducks or something.  There's been a few new members posting questions lately and no one's replying.  I tried to answer one, but it was really over my head.  " Re: message board "Teal season is here (and gone).  Went once and got a limit, went again and got my boots stuck in a mud flat and just now got loose." Re: message board "did your boots get loose too?  I got a pair stuck between clarendon, and brinkley anad I suppose they are still there. ;D" Smoothing tone board "How does everyone do this?  I just started using a peice of broken glass and it works great, just curious as to other possibilities." Re: Smoothing tone board "What do you mean, that you use broken glass?  I was coming to post a similar question in that I need a good poor man's way of smoothing the tone board.  File, File, File, that's all I can do right now." Re: Smoothing tone board "What I started doing was, file the tone board as close to the jig as possible, then I get a peice of glass and lay it flat and pull the wood over  it in one direction it takes off a minimum of wood, and gets all the burs, and smooths all the grain to a mirror like shine.  I couldn't believe it after the first one I did." Re: Smoothing tone board i use a VERY sharp knife held perpendicular to the surface..works well. pre-fab call guts? "I'm trying to find the best deal for pre-made reed assembly parts, (mainly toneboard & wedge pieces). Anybody got any ideas?" Re: pre-fab call guts? Have you tried Hut Products website?  Don't really know the best place for sure.  I'm still a glutton for punishment and am trying to make my own.  Apparently my life-long quest. You might be a RedNeck "If you've ever had a fishing lure surgically removed...
You might be a RedNeck.

[img]http://www.missmallard.com/images/hook_small.jpg[/img]

My daughter's first fishing trip.  Before we had even cast a line, I was baiting her hook, and knelt down on top of the treble hook of a rooster tail tied to my rod.

I tried pushing it through and pulling it out, but it wasn't going anywhere.  I just cut the line and went on fishing.  No need in spoiling a good fishing trip.

The ER doc had to actually cut it out.  He couldn't push it through either." Re: You might be a RedNeck "Reminds me of one time I went fishing with my grandpa, and was walking up behhind him and and i got my ear pierced.  at least mine went all the way through, so we cut the barb and pulled it out.  Only prob, was I was about 7 years old and it was my right ear, you know the GAY ear according to all your school buddies, thank goodness I was bigger than most of them." Re: You might be a RedNeck :'(
Better you than her.

Maybe you oughta stick to duck huntin'... ;D Re: You might be a RedNeck "
[quote author=Jughead link=board=duckcalling&num=1032877126&start=0#1 date=09/24/02 at 10:29:04]
you know the GAY ear according to all your school buddies[/quote]

Hey boy, you shor is perty wearin' them Zara Spook earrings...
" Re: You might be a RedNeck "If nothing else, at least you taught her what not to do on a fishing trip!  ;D

I'm sure she'll have that memory for a lifetime.  That's at least worth something, knowing she'll be laughing about it several years down the road." Re: You might be a RedNeck "That reminds me of the time my dad took me fishing when I was about 10. I begged him to let me fish with a jointed "rebel". HE finially gave in and took about 10 minutes explaning to me about those three sets of hooks and the care that needed to be taken... Well (and this really happened), on my FIRST cast, I heaved her back, slung that rod foward with all my might, and was snatched off the boat seat into the bottom of the boat. I looked up and lo and behold that shiny new rebel was buried in my dads forhead just above the horn-rimmed glasses. circa 1970. That was a very bad day...." Metal Laathe "Does anyone use a metal lathe?  Just curious  I am about to purchase a new machine, and will probably go with the jet mini, but started thinking about the ease off use with a metal lathe??  any input??" Re: Metal Laathe "Yes, I do. I have played with the wood lathes but I do all may calls on an engine lathe. Its all comes down to what you want you can get a mini lathe for 300.00 and be totally set up for 400.00. There is so much more you can do with a metal lathe than a wood lathe. Tony " Re: Metal Laathe You mean there is so much more [b]YOU[/b] can do with a metal lathe.  I don't think I could figure out how to turn one on.  ;D Re: Metal Laathe Hum yea your right. ;D..
Ok just kidding anyone can run a metal lathe just takes a littl practice just like anything else. Re: Metal Laathe I am trying to find a metal lathe myself.  Much easier to turn your stopper to the exact measurements every time.   Re: Metal Laathe "Ended up witht the Jet mini wood lathe, just picked it up today.  Do you knnow what they want sor a super nove chuck??? DAAAAAAAYYYYUUUUMMMMMM!!!!!!!!" Re: Metal Laathe "Jughead,

Have you tried KMS tools for the Super Nova Chuck?
[url]www.kmstools.com[/url]

I bought the regular Nova chuck from them for under $100, shipping and all.  Got it in about one week from placing the order.  " Re: Metal Laathe "Jug, the [b]Nova Compac[/b] will fit the Jet mini and works great for me with the standard jaws.  I don't think it has quite the range that a standard or super nova has, but it is a good bit cheaper than both.  I think I got mine for around $75?  I can't remember.

The threads are machined into the Compac, so if you need to switch between machines with different TPI then a standard Nova might be a better choice.  Under 100 for a standard is really good." Re: Metal Laathe "I use a metal lathe in particular for my acrylic calls.  Makes life soooo much easier and less danderous.  You who have used acrylic likely know how it likes to chip out ir throw shards when you cut too fast.  Well a metal lathe eliminates most of that and what does get thrown is in a predictable and managable direction.  Once things are roughed out on the metal lathe, I shift to the wood lathe to do the final clean up and flowing cuts by hand that are just not possible for my feable coordination and ability unless I use a CNC lathe.
I would never go back to just one lathe if I could afford it.
Wade
" Re: Metal Laathe Wade-C what engine lathe do you use?  Witch type of tooling are you using to turn your acrylic? Re: Metal Laathe "Okie;
I actually use one of those lathe/mill/drill press combo units, you can get em anywhere from 550.00 to 3000.00 and for this kind of work, most any one of them will work, but its a different story when I start making my call turning mandrels, that" Re: Metal Laathe Let me suggest some tooling that might help especially on acrylic. Find some of the old tool steel tooling. you want a 28 degree angle on both sides and a 28 degree positive rake. Make it as sharp as possible. I use tool steel on both wood and acrylic. If you have any questions send me an e-mail and i will give you my # Re: Metal Laathe "Ill see what I can do, sounds like somehting I can make fairly easily though the exact degrees might be off just a touch as my machine is not the most accureate when it comes to the swing vise, and I have had the money or time to get the 'protractor' dealy thingy to check and verify those specs.  Ill have to do some tinkering.  Thansk for the tip.
Wade
" Acrylic question.... "This is for all the acrylic gurus out there.  When you turn acrylic, is there a way to tell if you are doing it properly?  I tried to turn some last night and got a white string, (kinda like that silly string in a can) coming off of the chisel.  It was a smooth cut, so I suppose this means I was doing alright.  However, how do you know if you have the turning speed too fast or slow.  Finally, what chips/string should I get from the acrylic to know that my chisels are sharp enough and that I'm properly holding the chisel to the material for the cut?  Thanks" Re: Acrylic question.... "String Good.
Chips BAAAAAAD.

You might want to slow down if the string that comes off is so hot that it is kind of sticky and it starts balling up.  It's not hurting anything as long as you are roughing it out, but it can burn your fingers.

You don't want the chips flying.  They are sharp like pieces of glass and could damage an eye, and are bad on bare feet.  You can really screw up a call if you get in a hurry and get chips while you are putting the finishing touches on it.  Some kinds of acrylic tend to chip VERY easy.  The hardest piece I ever did was out of pearlized acrylic.  It would chip with the slightest pressure." Re: Acrylic question.... guys I talked with another call maker the other day and he gave me some advise that i tried and works amazingly well.  He said when roughing out to use sharp tools but when doing the finishing cuts use a very dull tool and spin the acrylic as fast as you can.  If you do this it almost eliminated all the tool marks and I sanded with 600 grit and polished and it was perfect. Re: Acrylic question.... Finishing cuts with dull tools & fast?  How odd.  I'll have to try that.  I would have guessed that the dullness and speed would increase the heat from friction?  

Re: Acrylic question.... i was real careful not to hold the tool in one spot or go too slow to reduce the heat and sprayed with water occasionally Re: Acrylic question....
[quote author=arkbuck link=board=duckcalling&num=1033046275&start=0#2 date=09/26/02 at 10:36:37]when roughing out to use sharp tools but when doing the finishing cuts use a very dull tool
[/quote]

I usually have no problem starting with a sharp edge and finishing with a dull one on acrylic... ;D Been away for a while "I haven't been reading or posting much in the past few weeks, but I'm still here.  I've been VERY busy with my real job and haven't had the time that I usually do.

Things will get back to normal for me after this weekend.
I think.  ::)" Re: Been away for a while the real job?  or the real tailgating going on down there in mississippi?  do you still need some osage orange? Re: Been away for a while jug I would like to buy some osage and would be very interested in the green osage the place in jacksonville you are talking about is that hogans? that has the green osage? Re: Been away for a while "Green Osage??  I read something about using green osage once, but can't remember details.  Can you use it green w/o splitting after drying?  Is there a benefit as far as call making is concerned??

I got some of the Osage Orange at Hogans 3 months or so ago and they only had one pallet of squares.  It was old and dry.

" Re: Been away for a while no not that kind of green  I am talking about the color the wood turns after it has been exposed to the elements like the bottom of a fence post will turn a green color sorry for the confusion Re: Been away for a while "I talked to hogans 3 days ago and they said thhey had the osage, I haven't been up there to inspect it yet, but I'll be going this next week" Re: Been away for a while Jason I will be going and getting some of the post we talked about a couple of weeks ago on the phone. I was told there is some freshly pulled post that had been in the ground for over 40 years. Hope to have them cut and shipped out by the end of the week. BURNING OSAGE ORANGE? I HAVE HEARD THAT IF YOU TAKE A PIECE OF DENUM AND HOLD IT AGAINST THE WOOD SPINNING ON YOUR LATHE THAT IT WILL BURN IT OR DARKEN IT SOMEWHAT. I HAVE TRIED THIS AND IT DID NOT WORK FOR ME! ANY TRICKS? Re: BURNING OSAGE ORANGE? you have to get a small strip and hold it on the wood spinning as fast as you can and run the strip under the wood with the tool rest removed and pull up hard after a few seconds there will be smoke and you will see the line formed on the wood. pull hard on the denim and give it time th burn the wood. Re: BURNING OSAGE ORANGE? "It works for me also, you have to put a lot of pressure on it" Teal Season "This forum needs some life.  How was everyone's teal season?  I hunted Missouri both weekends it was open and saw a lot of birds.  Group got a limit the first time and the other times saw plenty, but had set up problems.  We dropped a banded bluewing out of one bunch.  First banded teal I had seen.  

Of course everyone thought they had shot that one.  I lost another rock, paper, sissors contest.

Early goose season coming up Sat.  Decoys are starting to get excited." Re: Teal Season Teal season was great in my neck of the woods only hunted 2 mornings killed limits both mornings.  Goose season was good as well hunted Sat morning 6 of us killed 9 and I killed a canadian with a neck and leg band. Reed bending?? "I may sure that my reed material is stored perfectly flat so that it won't develop "memory."  However, I've noticed recently that the reeds on my calls have a slight bend after I've called on them a time or two.  Anybody else have this problem, or is it normal?  

The only "reed lifiting" that I can think of is when I trim the reed during tuning.  Should I take the reed out of the call every time I trim, rather than raise the reed slightly with my scissors?

Or is this a bigger problem with the shape of my toneboard causing inappropriate reed movement?" Re: Reed bending?? The pulling up of the reed to trim shouldn't be a problem.  Have you noticed a significant curve in the reed?  Do you put it between your thumb anad fore finger to determin which side is up?  Sorry for the q's but don't want to go off bashing your tone board without knowing the other varibles Re: Reed bending?? "I don't really know what you mean about between the thumb and fore finger, but I do turn the reed sideways and look for a natural bend before I place it on the toneboard for tuning.  Usually there is a very slight bend, so the reed is placed on the toneboard with the bend going away from the toneboard.  

After a few quacks, hail calls, chuckles, feed calls, I notice that the reed bend has been increased to where it is not as flat against the toneboard (during rest) as is was." Open for critque "

This is a file demonstrating my INabilities to blow a call I made, send me some feedback, I would like your honest unbiased comments, I'm a big ole boy, I cana take it.  BTW call is one of my cocabolas" Jughead Re: Open for critque "Atta boy, jughead.

Ya gotta admire an ol'boy to step up to the plate, bow his chest out and ask 50 callmakers to cut him deep and wide.

Man, this getting to be a pretty cool board. 8)" Re: Open for critque "Well, Flatlander, What do ya think, I want the feedback :-X :'( :-/ >:( ;D" Re: Open for critque "I took out the link, I'm replacing it with a different file that I did today" Re: Open for critque I think you're over-ampin' on the recording level.
Back off the recording volume a little and I'll get your new file and run it through my sound studio software. It makes a dandy sounding call file.

You recording onto your computer? Re: Open for critque "All I was doing was,  going to start,Program,accessories,entertainment,sound recorder.  Then had a guy post it up for me, it is a little distorted I thought.  but oh well.

her is the more enthusiastic version

http://www.zweck.net/audio/MeatsCustomCalls/" Re: Open for critque That's what we refer to around here as a "Bayou Meto Blaster." ;D
I think the call and the calling sounds great. You may want to try recording it again and turn the recording volume down some so it won't be so distorted. Maybe stand accross the room and face away from the microphone. (If you want to use the file later on a website or something.) Re: Open for critque Man the only thing missing from that was some shooting!!! Need some help. Please read "Just made my first insert today. Im stuck and need some advise. When I blow into the call it doesn't take much air, and when I put alot of air into it, it locks up easily. I haven't put any back pressure relief in it yet. Is this my problem. Am I not allowing enough air to flow through my call. Im using acrylic. Did I not drill the center deep enough. I compared my measurement to another custom call and everything looks right. I've done everything with the reeds that I can possibly do. Compared to a timber call it is alot quieter. Thanks for the help!!!!!!!!!!!11" Re: Need some help. Please read "I have this problem occassionally as well, but I'm not an expert at fixing it everytime.  However, two things come to mind.

1.  Yes, back pressure could be an issue.  However, I do not believe this to be the case in your situation. &" Re: Need some help. Please read "Good Answer, Good Answer.  I think deju haas put you on the right traack, that raaadius at the end is VERY important, thaats where I was having my troublr a couple of weeks ago." Re: Need some help. Please read "My guess is that if you pulled the insert and sucked through it while watching the reed, the only part of the reed that is moving will be the tip.  If this is the case, you might have a severe flat spot in the radius, or the overall radius is too gentle everywhere except at the tip.

About channel depth/length - I think RiverMallard and Duju are speaking of different measurements.  To avoid confusion, lets call the distance from the exhaust end of the insert to the end of the tone channel bore [b]"length"[/b] and call the distance from the top of the toneboard (where the reed lays) to lowest point of the (half) bore [b]"depth"[/b].

::) hmm, I guess that wasn't anymore clear was it?" Re: Need some help. Please read "Oops, good point Jason.  I was refering to the depth (height of hole) of the tone channel on the sound board itself.  Not the length of the bore on the sound board (from cork/wedge to approximately the reed tip)." Re: Need some help. Please read "Well, I worked on the radius and this has helped some. This insert is a total loss though. Time to start on a new one when I get time. This call making sure is frustrating at first. But live and learn. Thanks for the help guys" custom jewelry Anyone seen a tool for making your own leg bands or know where to get some made with your company info on them? Re: custom jewelry "I'll have to look up the receipt in my files, but I ordered some from a company called (i think) American Bands?

I found the information in the back of a DU magazine in the tiny print classifieds.

It was about $15 for 100 bands.  They will put whatever you want on them (as long as it will fit).  I had them put Miss Mallard and consecutively number them 001-100.  When I send a call out, a band with a matching # goes with it." Re: custom jewelry "Nope, that wasn't it.

National Band and Tag Company.  http://www.nationalband.com/

( National Band - that's sort of like American Band  :P )" Tone Board curvature "I've heard alot "said" here about the curvature of the tone board. I heard it stated that you don't want any "flat" spots on the board. What I'm curoius about is the fact that many call makers have a very flat board. For example, Roy Richardson, "The Duckman", has a looooong flat board with very little slope on the end of it. His reeds are just about half-again as long as mine, and you can blow your guts out and his call won't stick. What up with that? In your opinion, what exactly allows the call NOT to stick? Look at the old DR 85, that must be one of the most popular calls out there and its very "flat" compared to my call, I've tried to make it "stick" and can't. I ask this because I can allways put enough air into my calls to make them stick or "lock up" What are your thoughts? " Model12 Re: Tone Board curvature "First of all, it sounds as if you have made two separate observations and combined them into one.  I'll see if I can help, but remember this is only my opinion and theory at this point.  Anyone with greater knowledge, please feel free to correct" Re: Tone Board curvature "Thanks for the reply. You hit the nail on the head regarding my problem when you stated..."Too little and the reed squeals and is higher pitched.  Too much and the reed is hard to blow and can lock up." That is what bothers me. My tone board has alot of curvature to it. The call is EASY to blow. It will feed call soooo easy. Soft quacks no problem. Medium air on a come-back no problem at all, and it has a very good "ducky" sound to it. But get down on it and it sticks. It sticks and is NOT hard to blow. I guess problems like this make it more interesting....   " Re: Tone Board curvature I had the same problem with my calls.  I tried adjusting the toneboard but lost the sound and pitch when I did.  If you really new how to blow a call you could blow one of mine easily.  highball to chuckle but if you picked it up and tried to put 100psi into it it sounded more like a dog whistle.  Personally I like my calls very easy to blow but after doing one show most people cannot blow a call like that they think they have to huff and puff in it.  So back to the drawing board...... what I did to fix the situation is I increased the size of bit I was using to drill the insert by 1/32 and it made a world of difference.  try this I think it will help your problem a great deal. Re: Tone Board curvature oh I forgot try drilling yoour insert closer to the tip of your toneboard but go easy too much and it is ruined
Re: Tone Board curvature "First off, let me explain that I am NOT an expert in physics.  I dropped my only physics class in college before completing it and changed my major to Sociology.  However, I DID stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.  ;D

The best way I can expla" Re: Tone Board curvature "Jason, I would love to come and visit. I pass through Jackson almost every Friday (in the fall) headed to Greenwood. I really enjoy making calls and have learned alot in the last year. You guys are a great "sounding board" (no pun intended). I'll give you a call and maybe we can spend some time talking calls. Thanks for the reply and keep um coming. P.S. Being somwhat of an expert in physics is not a requirment to do this job. My background is Engineering and the phisics hasn't helped me a bit with this problem.... ;D" Chucks "Guys,

which chuck should I buy, I'm only going be turning calls, also, do you turn your stock to round before making calls?  It looks like the nova are best equiped to hold round stock." Re: Chucks "They hold square stock just fine.

The corners fit into the gaps that are created when the jaw is opened up.  I haven't used the reg. nova or super nova, only the Compac.  The Compac is supposed to be smaller than the other two, but I've n" Re: Chucks I also use the nova compaq and it works great but I dont turn anything on the chuck it is ony used for drilling.  If anyone is interested I have a unique way of turning and drilling mmy inserts.  I turn my inserts between centers which to me is much easier than a chuck.  I know what you are thinking how does he drill it center.... well I tried an inmill holder in the lathe but did not work perfect then tried a 5/8 heavy duty jacobs chuck and walla perfect every time.  I can take the insert out of the chuck and put it back as much as I want as long as I keep it real tight it centers every time.  also a very easy way to concave the ends.  That is my unsolicited tip o the day. Re: Chucks "I use the standard Nova chuck.  I caught it at a reasonable price and wanted to turn other items besides calls as well.  The standard 50 mm jaws work well for square stock, but rounded stock around 1.5" and less is a little tricky.  It can be done, but not great.  I have ordered the 35 mm jaws and expect it to cure all.  At least that's what the Teknatool customer service and I came up with.  All in all, I really like it due to its versatility.  And it was less than $100." Re: Chucks I use a 6" 3-jaw chuck.  You can get it from Craftsman or PennState Industries.  Penn is a little cheaper...I think there's is around $80.  I drill and turn using the chuck.  I don't turn the blank round.  I had someone turn me some aluminum rod that will hold the barrel once it has been drilled. It was step turned in case there is a little play it will hold no matter what. All I do then is insert both ends of aluminum into my barrel and chuck one end and use my live center on the other end to turn it. DuckDog Re: Chucks "Duju,   How much are the 35mm jaws gunna cost ya?  I have the 50mm and 25mm, but would rather not have to change them all of the time.  I've been looking into the 35mm jaws, they seem like they would do just about all I would need.  I'm also looking to order the dead center that fits the chuck, wouldn't have to remove the chuck/jaws to use it.

Gotta Go, trying to prepare for Lili." Re: Chucks "I have a mandrel for turning barrells, I was just curious on the stopper/inserts." Re: Chucks "Bellyhead,

I ordered mine from woodturners catalog.  They are 34.99.  Don't know if that's the best price, but I have had good experience dealing with them." Callmakers... their other job "I have read several posts on this board discussing our backgrounds.  I find it interesting to see the different types of people making these calls.  So my question is what do you do as your "other" job.

I'll start this topic by saying my "other" job is a certified public accountant.  And no I don't want your business, so don't assume this topic to be about advertising.  Merely a sociology experiment." Re: Callmakers... their other job "I got a BBA from Southern Arkansas University, with finance and marketing majors, but I am just an average ole Real Estate Salesman.  But I'm looking for a change!" Re: Callmakers... their other job "I full time in a factory and own a lawncare busisness on the side. My problem is that I have little time during the mowing season to make calls, but plenty in the winter. Looking to expand my Lawncare busisness and doing it full time in the next year or so. " Re: Callmakers... their other job Been a Tool and Die machinist for 15 years. Im with Jughead I'm also looking for a change. Re: Callmakers... their other job "I graduated from Mississippi State with a degree in Sociology.

I changed my major a few times...cameo appearances in the School of Engineering (two years),
the School of Veterinary Medicine (Pre vet actually...one year), The School of Forestry (one hour), and finally Sociology.  
I was a full time youth minister in several different churches after college before getting into computers.

My current (real) job:
[list][*]Network administrator[/list]

My other jobs:  
[list][*]Callmaking is still a hobby, but at least it pays for itself (unlike golf for instance).
[*]I often speak to youth at different church retreats during the year.
[/list]" Re: Callmakers... their other job "I quit a six figure income job to pursue a career in duck call manufacturing.  Not really, just a recently retired bureaucrat.  Moved from Mo to Arkieland to play golf, fish and chase ducks." Re: Callmakers... their other job "Buying timber,seeing after loggers,using GPS equipment trapping beavers all kinds of cool stuff (at least I think so).
;D








" Re: Callmakers... their other job "Dang Okie, why haven't I gotten you to make my new mandrel, and Jig??  Can I get a Forum discount?" Re: Callmakers... their other job Just as soon as I can get every thing back on track making parts for you all will be no prob. I got laid off three weeks ago and the machining industry is not looking to great at this time. I have been down this road before lucky enough its hunting season. ;D

As far as mandrels they are easy to build and take very little time. Jigs done right is a different thing all together. I have made several jigs in the past prefer to use D2 steel and have heat treated. If I had my own shop things would be even better.   Re: Callmakers... their other job I love to make calls as a way to meet new folks and be invited to hunt with them. But I make my money as a Surgical Tech/Paramedic on a neuro trauma team here in Colorado. So I get to meet people from all over the country when they ride their four wheelers with out a helmet here during hunting season. I was a cavalryman in the army before I became a medical worker. Education wise All I have is a H.S. diploma and a few national certifcations in the medical field. Re: Callmakers... their other job Graduate Assistant/MBA student at the University of Southern Mississippi. Did 8 years in USNavy as an Avionics Technician before returning to school. Re: Callmakers... their other job "I have one of those - self employed - laundry list jobs.  You know, when you dont amke enough at one, you add another just to make ends meet?  Duck calls was the 3rd addition to the whole mess.  Almost making things go now.

Job 1:  Accounting guy f" Wade_C Re: Callmakers... their other job I am a high school principal.  I spent 12 years as a high school football coach in Arkansas and the last four as a principal in Arkansas. Re: Callmakers... their other job "I wouldn't say I'm a callmaker just yet, but but i have a technical degree and MBA from Mississippi State and I work in the forest products business" Re: Callmakers... their other job

I have two associates one in diesel mech. and the other in Ag. Business. To pay the bills I am a operations manager at a grain elevator. But my long term goal is to make duck calls and hunting videos!! Re: Callmakers... their other job While I am only attempting to be a callmaker...I pay the bills working for ABF freight system in Ft Smith Ar....currently a "glorified dispatcher" titled as a linehaul coordinator....have worked in several different postions for them in the last 14 years. What do you use to cut your blanks I know band saws have a tendency to cut at an angle and I am having a tough time with mine right now.  Does anyone use a miter saw or something else to cut these?  Thanks. Re: What do you use to cut your blanks I use only a 10" miter saw and it works great.  I just bought a new one.  I have an old Black and Decker I will sell you for $25 it needs a new blade but works fine.  You pay to have it shipped.  The new ones are about $100 so i dint know what it would cost to have it shipped but check it out I need to get it out of my shop it too crowded in here. Re: What do you use to cut your blanks "Mitre saw all the way.  Once you set it to 90 degrees, it's all down hill.  If you have to buy one, I wouldn't worry about anything else except 90 degree cut.  Unless you want to use it for something else.  Definitely the way to go." Re: What do you use to cut your blanks "ArBuck....do you live somewhat close to Memphis?  If so, I  may be able to drive over and pick it up." Re: What do you use to cut your blanks "radial arm saw, makes miter cuts and rips." Re: What do you use to cut your blanks "Mitre, easiiest way too go IMO" Re: What do you use to cut your blanks "I usually use my band saw because it is a LOT quieter than my table saw.  Since my shop is still in the garage and I work in the evenings, it would be a bad thing to fire up the table saw.  I'll have more options once I get my shop built." Re: What do you use to cut your blanks I use a band saw or table saw depending on the situation. Something we did years ago is to step up and put after market guides on the band saw and that helped a lot. Someday I will get time to build a resaw. Re: What do you use to cut your blanks Dewalt Metal Chop saw with a 14" wood rip blade.  Sweet fast and to the point.  Alse very very clean because of the added speed from the increased radius. Link to volume? "I want to know if the depth (top to bottom/shallow or deep) of the tone channel on the sound board affects volume and back pressure.

It seems to me that if I have a shallow tone channel on the sound board, the call produces a softer volume.  " Re: Link to volume? It actually affects forward pressure.

I agree that a shallow tone channel reduces volume. Re: Link to volume? "It has some to do with volume as it increases the amount of air that can flow, allowing the reed to move faster and hit the surface harder making it louder.  From what I ahve seen, you can have a quiet call that takes a lot of air, but to get a loud call, it will really need some air volume, so I guess I look at the tone channel depth more as a limiter.  it will limit your max volume to a certian degree.  Though it will pay games with the sound, it is much less noticable if it were the only variable changed.
Wade
" Flat Tone "I have a problem that I have not seen discussed before on this forum.
I am new to call making and have made about a dozen calls so far.
I am fairly close to having the sound I want, but the sound seems a tad flat.
I have tried making the reed shorter but I still can not seem to get the higher
pitch I want to get out of the call.
Any suggestions?


" Re: Flat Tone "I'll give this a shot, but this is a tough one!  A couple of things come to mind, but not sure any one by itself is going to help.

First of all, I suggest that you search this forum for toneboard curvature discussions and read everyone.  " Re: Flat Tone "Also look into reed width, and tone channel length.  Hope that helps
Wade
" I finally got it!!! Thanks guys for all the help. Today I did a couple of modifications on my jig and put more back pressure into it and now I got myself a screamer. I was just starting to get a little discouraged but this one came through for me. Thanks for the advise a couple of days ago. The main reason I couldn't get any volume was from the back pressure. I put a tapered bore in it and that did the trick. Re: I finally got it!!! congrats man Re: I finally got it!!! Way to go!!  Its a great feeling isnt it?!?!
Wade Squeal Guys help me out here.....

When can you tell if the reason your call is sqealing is from the reed being too short or from a radius problem on the tone board?  My calls blow great from high to low to chuckle but the only problem is that if you crank on the call and blow as hard as you can into the call it will squeal.  I had never noticed the problem but I never blow that hard into a call but some of the people that have blown my call have blown them out.  Is that from a call problem or a caller problem?  I have noticed with some of my bought calls that if you blow real hard on them they do the same thing? Re: Squeal I would have to say it is a caller problem. I have had goose calls make some real loud buzzing sounds when blown to hard or just lock up. Re: Squeal "You could call it both ways depending on how you look at it.

A good caller can control the air pressure he/she puts into the call.  I prefer a call that I can blow hard, but I can blow the easy blowing calls without squeaking them as well.  It might take me a few hail calls/squeaks to find the sweet spot, but once I know how much is too much, I can blow just about any call (duck call that is).  :P

On the other hand, you want a product that is marketable  - even if you aren't selling them.  You want to make a call that people want to blow.  Keep making calls the way you like to make them, and practice customizing the sound to fit an individual's calling style.  Eventually, you will feel confident that you can adjust the call to fit the caller instead of expecting the caller to adjust to the call." Re: Squeal "Jason,
I have been able to make the call to where you can blow till your face is red and it will not squeal but it loses some high end tone and is a little too raspy to "ring" like it should.  where should I start to keep the ring but el" Re: Squeal "Arkbuck,

Ironically I have been listening to some duck calling instructional tapes lately to tune up for the upcoming season.  Without mentioning names, one tape in particular deals with this exact problem.

While often times it can be a" Re: Squeal thanks duju
that makes alot of sense.  I am really tired of making calls tuning them and they sound great only to have someone blow it and then I end up ruining it trying to get the call  tuned to their style or in some cases bad habits Re: Squeal "Arkbuck, Im with the people that say its a caller issue.  I bet money I can squeal just about any call out there that has good sound qualities in the normal spectrum.  ( I say that cause you can build a call that will not squeal but it wont likely sound like a duck, hence saying 'just about any call'), so I wouldnt worry, plus, it's "YOUR STYLE CALL"  people like it cause they like your style or they dont like it.  If they want to make it sound like you do, then they will likely have to learn to blow similarly.  But I am on the 'it's a caller problem' boat.
Duju, sounds like you have been listening to the "9 mandatories of duck calling" Am I right?

Have a great day guys.

Wade

" Re: Squeal You busted me Wade!   Re: Squeal "Eureka!

Made a minor adjustment last night and it was all it took.  Unless you have air compressors for lungs you wont blow this one out.  Wouldnt want to blow it in a competition but it wont squeal and sounds good.  Turns out the tone channel was just a little too short.  Extended it toward the tip and works great.  I had moved up my size of drill bit but now I think I can go back to the smaller one extend the channel and find the perfectmix between easy to blow and no sqeal.  Jason,
after I get one made this way I will send  it to you for review.  Will be next week belt broke on the lathe last night." Re: Squeal "Now I wouldnt say you cant squeal it...  I bet Duju and I can with our '9 secrets'.....  But maybe Im wrong, and if I am wrong Ill ask you just what exactly you did.
But i bet youll be surprised what tounge position, air volume, air pressure and back pressure will do to make a call squeaaaaalllllllllllll, if you want to.  ;-)
Glad things are going well.  Its  agreat feeling aint it?!?!?
Hunted this am, got a tripple on teal and a single widgeon with the new and so far trust Baikal Semi auto.  My young lab Gunner, ran a near spotless blind retrieve at 50yds, and marked the triple with no prob.

Have a great time!  And good luck this season.

Wade


" Re: Squeal Hey Wade or Duju where cam a man get a copy of the 9 tape.  Sounds like I would be interested in listening to it? Re: Squeal How many of you guys use the Gating technique? http://www.duckcallers.org/ Re: Squeal "Arkbuck, the 9 mandatories are the backbone of the Carlson Call Operation system.  I must admit that it is definitely a twist from the "grunt" style of calling.  It's not a quick transition if you are a grunt caller.  In fact, I'm just trying to learn it, and it can be frustrating at times.  It is said that if you are new to calling, you will pick it up alot faster than callers that have "grunted" for years.

Bull_Sprig, the link you gave is pretty slick.  Haven't seen that download for the gating technique.  Seems to go hand in hand with the 9 mandatories.  Thanks for that link!" Re: Squeal There are a couple other downloads carslon has.  youll have to check out their site.  Also Im sure Jim J wouldnt mind you asking him questions about his tapes and techniques.  He's on wf.com as jim j ot Id guess you can call  him in Om Re: Squeal "allright,  Im tired of you guys speaking greek.  what is gating?  How does this process work.  No detail just a general overview" Re: Squeal Take a look at http://www.duckcallers.org/software.html
There are some programs and animations that will explain it.  Basically "Your tounge is used as a valve or "gate" for air pressure."  making it more controlable and manageable.
Hope that helps.  Feel free to give me a yell one of these day sif you want to hammer through some of it.
Wade
Re: Squeal "I may be wrong, but I think this is the first "Hot Topic" and the first multipage post we've had on this board.  Woo Hoo!

It's time to start selling advertisements now.   ;) just kidding  :P" Re: Squeal "Go for it man!!  If you think it will help the site, it might not be a bad deal.  But only if you think it would help the site, otherwise its not likely worth the headaches.  But if you do, let me know so I can get WEBFoot Custom Calls on h" Re: Squeal Advertising may not be a bad idea... [url]http://www.duckcallers.org/[/url]
Check out the cool banners and click on the advertising link at the bottom. Not a bad deal. Re: Squeal "Yeah, just one thing comes to my mind. Be sure that it is obvious in appearance of the website that advertising comes second, content and people come first - bar none - period.  But Id be on board if you went there with this place as long as you didnt turn into wf.com and some of their stupid stuff.

Jason, can I link to your site on my website?  Just want to check before I do.
Email me.

Wade" Re: Squeal ooops wrong thread arkbuck Cork Thickness? "Great site you've got here - thanks to "GulfCoast" for the pointer!

Being as new to this site as I am to call making, I have a question regarding cork thickness.  

I see that HUT has both 1/8" and 3/16".  What is the benefit of using one over the other?  Should the size used relate to the size of the call or the length of the reed?  Or is it simply a matter of personal prefernce?" Re: Cork Thickness? "I haven't heard anything about cork thickness being related to reed or call length.  I personally use the 3/16 for a number of reasons.  It's easier to get files in the reed seat when you need to take the toneboard down a bit.  If you use a 1/8 slot you have to use the little bitty files that poke holes in the palm of you hand.

My inserts actually come out of the jig with the notch somewhere between 1/8 and 3/16.  I'll shave the thickness of a piece of 3/16 to fit while I tune the call.  After tuning, I'll file the underside of the top part of the reed seat to the full 3/16 and cut a new piece of cork to the right width and length.

I'd like to be able to say that all my calls come right out of the jig, I slap in a precut reed, tap in a standard width wedge, and they're good to go; but I got a ways to go yet." Re: Cork Thickness? There is a recent discussion about depth of the tone channel and its effect on volume.  The basic idea is that deeper channels allow a larger volume of air under the reed and thus more volume.

The size of cork limits the depth of the channel to som Re: Cork Thickness? "Thanks guys.

Jason, that makes a lot of sense - less is more (less cork is more strength in the cork slot).

As an added bonus, it also makes for less expensive cork.   ;D" Pictures Guys here is a link to a page with a picture of some calls I curretly have made.  Please Post some pics of your calls I have chatted with most of you about making calls and it would be nice to see some of the final products.  If you cant post your pics email one to me and I will post it on this page and put your name under it.

[url]http://www.outlawgamecalls.com/calls.htm[/url] arkbuck Re: Pictures They're looking good!

I love the old coke bottle colored acrylic.  They make a nice looking call.   8) Re: Pictures Pretty snazzy there Arkbuck!  Nice looking calls. Re: Pictures NICE CALLS!!! Re: Pictures Just need some sound files up there.  ;-)

Wade

Re: Pictures "Arkbuck, you did it backwards.  You should have had everybody post theirs first before you did.  I ain't going to post my ratty looking old calls now.   ;D

" Re: Pictures wade you have got one put a sound file up with the one you have and I will try and get one up myself.  I have a little quirk with a call I am real good so everyone I hunt with says but dont like to blow in "public" thats why you'll never see me on stage.  But I can put one up in a day or two. Re: Pictures "I dunno, that might be used to blackmail me, or you.  My calling on your call.....  I dont know that I could do it justice, and on top of that em-bare-ass myself.  We'll see. I have some computer stuff to do before I can get back to my regulat stuff.  Had to reformat the other computer at home and it is not up to par yet.  Damn AMDs, I get it figured out one of these days.
Ill see what I can do at home as the office echos way to much to record in here.
Wade
" Re: Pictures C'mon Quonk!!  Post up! Lets see them beauties!! Re: Pictures " :-[  OK, OK, but I warned you.  I'm sending a couple jpgs to Artbuck.  He can post them on his site or not as he sees fit.  If he does, one of them is of my Northern Arkie Meat Call and the other has a few of the other kind." Re: Pictures OK quonks babies are up and ready to view just follow the link above.  Where are the rest of you guy's pictures dont let me and quonk be the only ones.  I realize some of you have a website and your pictures are already on there but post them send them to me anyway with your site address and I will put a link along with your pictures.  You all know how many views the board gets.  Jason If you have a problem with this let me know and I will cease immediately. Re: Pictures "No problems here.

Quonk,
Those are some good looking calls.  But the meat call...Is that a pork or beef tenderloin?  Could it be considered baiting by the Men in green?   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D" Re: Pictures "Whoot Wooooo there Quonk!! Them are some mighty fine specimens of the calling world.  Mow you boys need to get your sound files up.  
If you end up getting a mandrel or something of that nature from me, remember you will have a permanent home on my "Customer's Calls" page.  And if you have a sound file, Ill put er up there too, or if you send me a call Ill make one and put up there for you.  Then, if I have to....... Ill send the call back.  ;-)  Me funny guy!!

Good looking calls Buck and Quonk!  
Let em know about sound files for the calls.  Ive almost got the virus' and stuff off my recording computer.  So I should be back after it here in a few days.

Wade
(Lil C)" Re: Pictures "Jason, the meat call is definately a multi-use tool, but its uise wouldn't be considered baiting unless a few kernals were missed by the lathe.  I have a few of those though, but their cash only deals ;D" Re: Pictures New Pictures up from Flatlander.  Take a Look! Re: Pictures "Boys, you all have some seriously purrty calls!  I think I may just have to take my lathe and go play in the kiddy sand box.  Mine look nothing more than average in comparison.  Very very nice calls.

Wade
" Re: Pictures "Flatlander, nice work.  When I put on the specs it looked like one of them was Corean.  Is that right?  I've used it in place of brass for the band, but not the whole call.  How does it sound?

Wade, haven't you learned the secret to posting good looking calls?  Take some of that money you're blowing on sand paper, steel wool and the like and get you some cheap photo enhancement software like I did.  ;D ;D " quonk Re: Pictures "Yep, Corian. Made of acrylic. They usually turn out sounding loud and clean. The problem is they only make it in 1/2" sheets, so you have to do a little work just to get it to turning stock. Lots of cool colors, though.

And thanks for the compliments, fellas." Re: Pictures I saw one of your calls on ebay a while back.  They look great! Re: Pictures ok I have a sound file recorded but someone needs to tell me how to post it.  I am using front page and I tried inserting the file and it keeps locking up when I try to upload the file to the server.  Is that how I am supposed to do it.  Wh Re: Pictures "When you use front page, if it links while youre in the program, but them wont uplad, its likley a frontpage thing.  try using a FTP program to upload everything.  That should take care of it.   Thats what i do.  I use front page but dont even try to load it to the web with front page, I just FTP it.  Faster, safes and of course it works too.
Wade
" Re: Pictures Thanks for the link!  I should have my new and improved site up here in few and it has your call on Buck.  I think I linked to you as well.  Ill double check.
Wade
Re: Pictures "Well I finally got pics of my calls. I've been soo busy lately during the hunting season that I have not had time to work on my calls. Season is finally over and I now have time. I just want to give a big THANKS to all of you for all the helpful information that you have shared. I couldnt have made calls without your help. I think I have this call making down, but I still have some pretty frustrating times. My biggest problem is getting the wife and kid out of the house so that I can tune them. Let me know what you guys think of them" Re: Pictures Sorry my pics arent up yet. I'm just waiting on arbuck to add them Re: Pictures Mighty purty stuff you gots up there!!

Wish mine were that spiffy... I dont have near the cool materials and such you all have...
Wade
Re: Pictures OK River Mallards Calls are up and they look great sorry for the delay you all know its the split here now so I can finally get some things done for a day or two. Re: Pictures VERY nice.  I wouldn't have waited so long to get that picture taken. Acrylic Where does everyone get theirs? Re: Acrylic G Pomalar Plastics 901-345-2700 and
Norrell Plastics 901-363-3496

G Pomalar Plastics is the cheeper of the two Re: Acrylic Wade at webbfoot custom calls will supply you he is great to work with and can work with you on buying some smaller quantities instead of buyin a 4' stick if it is something he wants as well.

Hut Products but very expensive

Mr. Plastic in Fort Smith Arkansas.  Good supplier but have to order a full 4' of whatever you want. Re: Acrylic By the way I have a bunch of acrylic and if you just wanted a chunk or two Ill send you a piece or two for cheap. Re: Acrylic http://www.hutproducts.com/ Call style - Arkansas...Reelfoot?? "Okay, so I'm new to this and freely admit it.   ;)

I've got the wood and I've got the tools and skill to do the actual turning of a call.  The question is, what am I making?   :-/  

What are the fundamental differences between Reelfoot and Arkansas-style calls?  Do each have essential design characteristics that make them sound different from one another, or is it a more subjective/aesthetic differentiation?  ???  I've tried searching the web for details, but have only found calls referred to as one style or the other with no real definition.   ::)

Puzzeled, but itching to go in Toronto......" Re: Call style - Arkansas...Reelfoot?? I think I can help you out but not 100% this is correct.

An arkansas style call is a 2 piece call it consists of a barrell and an insert with a cork slot holding the reed in.

A reelfoot or louisiana style call is a 3 piece call it consists o Re: Call style - Arkansas...Reelfoot?? I'm new to this game as well. I'm also not scared to admit it. I was however born with the natural ability to create with the upmost craftmanship! LOL! I've found so far that you can put a metal reed on both types. I've also found that the public eye on t Re: Call style - Arkansas...Reelfoot?? "Look what I found....

"In both duck calls, the sound is made by the vibration of the reed against the tone board. In a Reelfoot style call, the tone board is flat and the metal reed is curved, or bent. In an Arkansas-style call, the tone board is curved while the plastic reed is straight.

Both calls work well when hunting. The Reelfoot style is perhaps better for a beginner, as it takes less growl, or throat to produce a quality sound. Do not touch the metal reed however. Just a tiny change in the curve of the reed produces a dramatic change in the sound of the call."

This was taken from the FAQ page of Howard L. Harlan's web site.  

See his site here:  http://quackin.com/hvy-duty/ .
 
Even though he sells his own line of calls, there is still a good amount of info to be found on the site if you wander around it for a spell." Re: Call style - Arkansas...Reelfoot?? "I beg to differ with him on one respect...  if you need to growl or use throat for the arkansas style call to sound good, you dont have a good call.  Yes you can make it sound different with a growl or sustained larnyx, but if it NEEDS the growl to sound good, its not as good of a call as it would like to be.  Yes growling has its place in calling, no growling shouldnt be needed to make the call sound good.  In my opinion.  I grunt style  call, but its a pre grunt, not a continual grunt.  And I can make the same sounds on my calls with or without the grunt.  Its the call not the growl or grunt.  
Have a great day and Im gonna take my opinionated ol butt out to the shop and gonna make some calls.

Wade
" Supplies "Hey guys this is a really awsome board! :o
I was wondering if I could get a least of suppliers going here. To compare prices & products. I know there are more items for sale out there than I ame finding, such as the brass or aluminum bands. All I find is one size of brass band. I'm currently making my own aluminum bands.

I use http://www.hutproducts.com/ for my supplies.

Thank ya'll for letting me ba a part of this group!" Re: Supplies "Probably some better ones, but I use:

Onlinemetals.com for the brass.  They have multiple diameters and wall thickness (I like the .040).  You'll need a good tubing cutter that will open over 1 1/4 inches.

Berea Hardwoods or Gilmer Hardwoods have decent wood prices.

Norrell Plastics, Inc. in Memphis for mylar.

Hut Products for cork (It's the only place I could find dense cork like I wanted in samll quantities).  If anyone knows where you can get the real dense stuff without having to buy enough for 50 lifetimes, I'd appreciate knowing about it.

I think all these have websites you can find with a search engine.

Most of the rest of the stuff (finishes, etc) can be had at Wally World or your local hardware store." Re: Supplies "For cork, try looking at valve cover gaskets at the auto parts store.  Especially if they have the brand Engine Dynamics and I think its part numbers VC-001 or VC -029.  i know the 001 3 is right but the 29 I am not sure.  It is the smallblock chevy HD gasket its twice as thick.

Small quantities, and for the most part, has a straight edge on one side already cut.
Wade
" Sanding..... I would like to know what everyone's sanding progression is.  Paper # would be helpful. Re: Sanding..... "I use 3M wet/dry paper in 240,320,400, 800, 1500, polish with tripoli compound.

If it is used on acrylic, I always WET SAND." Re: Sanding..... "Same here but I use 600 instead of 800, and I use a plastic cleaner and polish from the automotive section.
Wade
" Re: Sanding..... "i use 220, 320,  then move to a #0000 synthetic steel wool (scotch brite pad) then to 0ne #00000 then to a plastic polish by HUT that is the best I have ever tried then I buff on the lathe after the call is completed with tripoli then Jewlers rouge.  I use the steel wool pads wet on plastic and the wood if it is a high oil content wood.  the steel wool (scotch brite) pads are great you can use one over and over again and just wash it out and keep using it sure beats buying sandpaper every other day." Re: Sanding..... Where can I find some tripoli?   Re: Sanding..... " ???  I'm confused, but what's new.  Are you guys talking mostly about acrylic finishing?  I've not worked with any acrylics yet, but with all the types of wood I use I'm just using steel wool of various gradations.  About the only unsmooth places I can find after I get done with the 0000 wool is graining which I can fill if needed." Re: Sanding..... I'm talking about wood as well.   Re: Sanding..... "Quonk, if steel wool work for you, there's no reason to change.  
I do go through all of the papers on both wood and acrylic.  

There aren't obvious tool marks before I start sanding, but when I'm done, even the wood calls look like they've been poured into a mold.   ::) Without the cast lines of course  :P

Duck Dog, you can find Tripoli Compound at any hardware store or Home Depot type place.  It is usually located near the buffing wheels and other polishing compounds such as emory compound which is a little rougher than tripoli, and jewelers rouge which is a little finer (I think) than tripoli." Re: Sanding..... "Sorry, my first post is acrylic based.  for wood, I just go through 220, 320, 400, 600, 1500, (all wet sanding) and then let it dry and hit it with 1500 agin once its dry, but turning in the opposite direction.  Then its time for the polishing rag and the wax.

Thats what I use for wood.

" Re: Sanding..... Thanks for the help guys.   Re: Sanding..... Call or email me if you ahve any other questions.  Sometimes its easier to go over some things on the phone.

Wade
reed trimming "I think in past threads I noticed a some mention of reed trimming, but not much detail.  With all other barrel and insert factors equal, what effect does trimming the corners (on the end) of the reed have?  Also, the difference in sound of a narrower vs wider reed.

Since my insert factors are seldom equal, I whack up a lot of mylar until I get the sound I like on some boards.  Some end up narrower than others and some have quite a bit off the corners." Re: reed trimming "The main affect of cutting the corners is that it helps creat clearance so that the tip of the reed doesnt hit the inside of the barrel on its upward travel.  Im sure there is some sound change that is created though ive never tried it to know.

As for the width of the reed, that depends.  I have built some that made it easier to blow and not changed the pitch, and others that raised pitch and didnt blow and easier.  So Id say there is some affect of the reed width, but it seems to have more affect in relation to the curvature of the soundboard and other variables.  So in sort, i sort think I know, but am not sure I can drescribe it and also unsure if Im right.
But thats what ahs happened to me when Ive messed with reed width.  Good luck
Wade
" Re: reed trimming "generally speaking, the more of a dog ear you have the more rasp to a point, I'm not talking about high ball ring to ducky growl, but the more heavily you dog ear the more rasp you add" Re: reed trimming I usually just barely snip the corners so that they aren't as likely to delaminate.  I've never given much thought to how it affects sound. Re: reed trimming I put alot of time and attention into clipping the corners of the reed.  The more you clip the more rasp comes out of the call.  If you get a call that blows with the pressure you want and is too raspy on the high end if you will go to clipping the corners of the reed it will pull that rasp out and make it ring.  Be careful a little goes a long way.  For those of you who have not tried it give it a try it will suprise you the way you can tune one in by clipping the corners.  I picked this tip up on Ricks message board and it solved alot of problems for me. AR Festival (not that one) Not the one in Stuttgart.  But they are having a quacking in the valley contest and festival on the 26th in Russelville my brother is going to be blowing one of my calls in the contest and also blowing one in the Jr. worlds this year.  Just wanted to let yu guys know if any of the guys from AR or around wanted to go blow. Re: AR Festival (not that one) "Arkbuck,

Post up some details or email me either way.  I'm pretty close to Russelleville and might go if I knew where and when." Re: AR Festival (not that one) "The Festival is the ATU (arkansas tech Univ) outdoor and wildlife festival in conjunction with AGFC and I think DU (the headquarters for AR DU are in Russleville) the festival is on October 26th the calling contest is at 1 PM it is the 5th annual contest so there should be a decent turnout.  The format for the contest is a meat calling contest (only difference is they ask for no high ball'n or main streetn' just pure duck calln' those are the exact words on the flyer)  each call will be judged individually along with entire routine hail call, feed chuckle, comeback call, lonesome hen call.  You can pre-register for the contest at several locations in Russleville (early-bird outfitters, A-1 Pawn, Etc.) and the entry fee is $15 I think with guarenteed payout to 1st thru 3rd in three different age groups (to 13, 13 to 17, and 18 and up) if you need any further info just ask." Re: AR Festival (not that one) "I would go, but I will be at the Hogs game.  Let us know how things turn out." Re: AR Festival (not that one) "Arkbuck, e maail me with all the details, Ii thinnk I may come up and give the one man meat a shot, never blown one man meat, for that matter only blown in one contest period.  Shoot me all the details on e mail, at JarrodHambric@hotmail.com" Competition Calls I have been reading some details about some other call makers competition calls and have a question..... They claim that the calls are built with less back pressure (smaller hole in the insert) but are to be some of the loudest calls avaliable?  How do they achieve that?  I was under the impression that the volume came from the size hole in the end of the insert.  The reduced back pressure is to be able to hold a hail or high ball call for a longer period of time but where does the volume come from? Re: Competition Calls "It is my understanding that the smaller hole would create more back pressure.  The reason this is done on the competition calls is, as you stated, so they can blow the hail call longer.  The volume is created by opening the exit end of the stopper.  The more you open it the louder it will be." Duck calls need help i have never tried making duck calls but very interested and would like to know of any thing that would be helpfull.  sorry to bug yall but i really am interested please help

i.e.  woods or acrylics where and how much.  tools.  reeds. stuff like that thanks. Re: Duck calls need help "Let me scare you first, then we'll get to it.
LOTS OF MONEY, TIME, BLOOD, and EMOTIONS.  To the point it will almost drive you crazy with anticipation and excitement, but still leave you mad as heck when somehting just wont work.....

That b" Re: Duck calls need help i am very anquios (sp) but i dont have a lathe yet so i will probly just try and sand for many countless hours and appreciate all the help i can get.  can i just use non-exotic woods like maple or cherry?  is that possible or does it effect how it sounds.  thanks for all help Re: Duck calls need help The hardness of the wood has an affect on the sound.  Most exotics are fairly easy to get and cheap too.
Wade
- who is pissed at wf.com for wanting to charge me 1200.00 a month to put THEIR link on MY site.  (free advertising for them)  1200.00 yeah right and monkeys will fly outta my butt.
Re: Duck calls need help "Monkeys huh?

Hey Wade, For 600 a month, you can put My link on your site.  ;D ;D

It's a sad thing that alot of the (used to be) good message boards are headed that direction, or are already there." Re: Duck calls need help "Umm well Geeee, Ill have to see if I can come up with that 600 a month.  Crap thats 60% of what I make a month as a whole.  Hell wf and their 1200 a month.  Thats 120% of my personal income for the month.

So I take it its okay with you Jason if I put your link on my site?   ;D
Have a great day snd im going to go back to being mad t wf now.

Wade
" Re: Duck calls need help "Everyone that starts, starts somewhere....I recommend getting an old, cheap, or new, expensive, whatever, wood lathe. Then spend a week or so making small round pieces of wood out of larger square pieces of wood. After that, if you really like making smal" Re: Duck calls need help "***CAUTION***
Call making has been know to cause marital defects, sibling rivalry, neighborly tension, and a general selective hearing.  Make calls at your own risk.  Contributors of this forum claim nor bare any responsibility for damages inflicted by information, stories, and encouragement produced, supplied, or broadcast herein.  

Man...  Do I need to lay off the quack!!!  
;-)

Wade
(Lil C)
" New forum idea.... Jason what do you think? "What about a "Guns and Reloading" Forum.  I bet many of the guys that make calls, "roll their own" when it comes to shells.  I know I do!  Fast fast steel baby.
Just a thought, maybe cover all aspects of waterfowl reloading from choke tubes to components and loads?

Oh, you never said whether I could link to your site or not.  Can I huh huh huh for less than 1200 a month?
Wade
" Re: New forum idea.... Jason what do you think? "I was thinking about reloading some bismuth shells. Does anyone know of any regulations reguarding reloading non-toxic shot? Like, do you have to use bismuth hulls, or can you just sling'em into an old "Nitro Xpress" hull?
How would you prove it's not lead shot to Mr. Warden?
Is bismuth magnetic? ???" Re: New forum idea.... Jason what do you think? "I dont believe bismuth is magnetic, actually Im pretty sure its not.
As for loading it, using any hull listed in the recipies is fine.  ardens should have the proper equipment to tell.  Worst case scenario they would cut one at random open. &" Re: New forum idea.... Jason what do you think? I agree with Wade it would would be nice to have a reloading forum in here I love to reload almost as much as I like to make calls. Also its something to do in the night/summer when there is not a waterfowl season. Im a diehard Hevi-shot kind of guy and would like to know what others think of it? Please can we have this forum??? :D :D :D Re: New forum idea.... Jason what do you think? Im a fast fast steel kind of guy. Most of my loads are cruising over 1600 fps.  And that my friend kills dux dead.
Wade
Can we huh can we huh can we? Can we have a reloading forum? PPLLLLeeeaasSSSSEEEE!!!

Wade
Re: New forum idea.... Jason what do you think? "In case anyone cares, and is interested in the reloading forum stuff. Im in the middle of gettin gsome loads tested for pressure and velocity with a bunch of guys from WF.  Its looking like its going to be a kick butt thing.  Anyway, if anyone is interested check it out.
Lil C
Wade" Re: New forum idea.... Jason what do you think? "GT, I'm interested in the heavy shot.  I've shot some and am very impressed.  Also impressed with the price of commercial loads.  I've heard that hevi shot will perform better than most shooter's capability to take advantage of.

Is the shot available for purchase and, if so, is the price prohibitive (compared to buying Remington loads)?  Any good loads worked up for ducks and geese in a 3" 12 guage?  Will standard hulls work? " Re: New forum idea.... Jason what do you think? "qounk,
         I get most of mine(hevi-shot) from www.ballisticproducts.com they are the BEST bar none on reloading stuff. they sent me a reloading book when I bought my hevi-shot from them. I use standard winchester xx hulls with it. Let me think ::) ::) it was a hundred bucks for a kit that made 98 shells it came with everything but powder and primers. this is less than half the price at the store for these shells. I have a box of the remingtons for when I go to Marylands eastern shore in two weeks Ill let all ya' all know how the work out. Also try www.cabelas.com or mack's preirrie(damn never could spell that) wings. if all else fails shoot me an e-mail ok ???" Re: New forum idea.... Jason what do you think? "I can imagine the HS is great stuff, but since my steel will kill out past my ability, 50ish yards for ducks and further for geese, I figure Ill just load the "cheap stuff"  The trick is fast moving.  I had 100% pass through penetration on some ducks the other day that were at 42 and 38 yards with 3 and 4 steel. (one of each).  And my1s and 2s were killing snows and blues dead at 38-45 yards.  So all in all, Ill hang here with my cheap stuff. HS just seems to be a waste of money, but for those who dont reload, its a step up from steel.

Wade" Re: New forum idea.... Jason what do you think? "Good point Wade! I would agree that your steel works well for you I would stick with it!!! I had problems with my steel in my shot gun so I switched over to HS and love it. I think we all should consider all factors (weather, range, gun, birds, cost) before we jump in head first with 2.00$ per shell ammo.
      I need to get with you about your FAST FAST steel shells some day I have 14 pounds of steel 2s and 4s on my reloading bench gathering dust as we speak. And as a paramedic with lots of combat under my belt I could NEVER argue about a pass through!!!" Re: New forum idea.... Jason what do you think? "The hymnal is the Reloading Specialties Manual.  There are a few loads that Im useing that are not published and we are having them tested here soon.  Me and a bunch of guys from waterfowler.com are sending in a bout 4 loads.
I love the fast stuff, and if you relead, its all you need,  I dont even use 3.5" loads anymorecause the 3" are so friggin deadly,  but primarily 2 3/4" at that.  1700 fps of #3 or #4 will kick most things butts.  Let me know if I can be of service.  The crimps are the money with fast steel.

What problems were you having with your gun and steel?  Maybe I can help.
Wade
" Re: New forum idea.... Jason what do you think? "Wade,
         Nothing I could put my finger on just a lot of cripples. It is the same Mossberg 835 I use for everthing. I would like to think Im a good shot with it. I was using a Mod. choke with 3.5" #2s , 1 19/16 load federals. Any ideas? Im all ears. With this exception I only use Winchester ammo. Like for dove quail turkeys,coyotes, ect. by the way what kind of crimp you use? Thanks for letting me bend your ear. I have a good bit of time off from school this Christmas I could use a ton of advice and the steaks on me OK!" Re: New forum idea.... Jason what do you think? "Cmon out!!

AS for the kill/cripples performance.. Id say your problem is the 3.5" part of your gun.  The 3.5" loads, EVEN THE ONES US RELOADERS MAKE, arent as fast on average in correlation to the pay load as the 2 3/4 and 3". &" Re: New forum idea.... Jason what do you think? "Wade,
            Ive got a million reloading manuals but the RSI is new to me If you could give me your recipe for the shells you use Ill give it a go. also what choke you use with it? Ive got a REAL gun store in town here so I can get anything I need. I also have my 870 and a auto -5 I could use.
                 THANKS A MILLION" Re: New forum idea.... Jason what do you think? "-Caution, these are not published loads, use at your own risk-

These are the favorites of mine.

STS37
Rem STS hull
Win 209
37 grs of STEEL
RSI Sam1 2 3/4" wad
1 oz - 437 grs of #4 or #3 steel shot
Not filler wads.
" Re: New forum idea.... Jason what do you think? "Wade,
         As allways thank you :D :D for taking the time to write these down for me Ill go to the store today and git some steel powder. I might have to wait till the third split to use them but will give me time to pattern them out. sorry Bonny is slow your ALLWAYS welcome here Ive got lake Pueblo all to my self most days and some of the bays are great for decoying them in. Lots of divers.  Thanks Again John" Re: New forum idea.... Jason what do you think? "Dont for get to chrono them... you will be amazed the differenece in velocity with a good or bad crimp, or an once fired vs reloaded many times hull.

Wade
" Im planning something and I want to know ... "I want to know what you guys think of my goose call ideas.

Here is the history and begingin story:
I am working on some goose call designs.  Now we all know there are a lot of call makers out there, and many of them are using someone elses " Re: Im planning something and I want to know ... "It's kinda hard to say with the limited information, but being the "first one out there" with a new design couldn't be a bad thing.   ::) Unless it sounds more like a cow.  ;D  If the new design sounds good, folks will buy it even if it isn't th" Re: Im planning something and I want to know ... Thanks for the input.  Any other big fish out there gonna take the bait and give an opinion?  Arkbuck?  Quonk?  Someone who uses someone elses guts?  Anyone who buys their calls rather than makes em wanna through in your input?
Thanks
Wade
Re: Im planning something and I want to know ... "Can't tell for sure what you have in mind for your, no brain, easy tune short reed, but I had an opportunity to look at one of Echo's new short reeds the other day. and it's got a system that is easy.  The reed has square notches cut in it that catch" Re: Im planning something and I want to know ... "Wade,
Here is my opinion.....

Duck Calls seem to be more of a way to express yourself in the blind and to argue about who made it and who's is better and to give you something to talk about when there are no birds.  You see huge duck call c" Re: Im planning something and I want to know ... "If a couple of you guys want to PM me with your email, or if I already have your email, then a PM letting me know what you intest is and a little confidentiality agreement type thing, Ill send some pictures out to a delect few for their input.  Thanks for the info so far.  I think Im going to do a second style "like everyone elses" and then have a bit more coverage in the market.  Maybe thats what Ill call it... the "L-E-E Canadian Honker"   "Like - Everyone - Elses"   :o  me so funny guy.   ;D
Wade" Re: Im planning something and I want to know ... I have been working on a goose call for some time that sounds similar to what your talking about. With mine when taken apart there is 5 pieces and my 5 year old can take it apart and put it together with no problem. It sounds ok still working on getting it right where I want it. Unfortunately Lomans makes a goose call that is similar to mine in the aspect you can take it apart and put it back together the same every time.

I have seen some ugly calls sell and sell quick just because they sound great.

I don't think you should have to any downfalls there are a lot of goose calls out on the market that are made by different people that use the same guts and most advertise them as there own. Re: Im planning something and I want to know ... "I have a couple "Ugly Cluckers" made, and need to get the pics on the site.  What would you think a reasonable price for an UGLY call that is custom made and tuned?  NO "OTHER GUYS" PARTS USED< ALL 100% CUSTOM MADE SOUND BOARD BY MOI.

Thoughts?
Wade" Retriever question "I suspect a lot of you have retrievers and have been involved in their training.  I've had 4-5 labs before the current one and ran into a new situation that I could use some advise on.  She's a little over six months old and loves bumpers in her training excercises.  When I introduced her to dead doves and teal this season, she would run to them, nose them, but wouldn't pick them up.

Anybody ran into this before and found a solution?  I'd prefer not to go to force fetch yet." Re: Retriever question I have had this happen with young dogs....You may try to attach a wing to your bumpers.....this worked for me with my current dog when he was a pup....but in the end I think force fetch is the real answer!!!! Re: Retriever question "Thanks for the reply.  I fastened part of a goose wing on a bumper and think I'm making progress.  Don't know a lot about FF training, other than you need to find someone that's experienced with a good reputation in such matters.  I'm not, but may need to look someone up later." Re: Retriever question "Maybe, I can help you with this some Sounds like the dog has what it takes to do the job. It may just need a little help getting there I've trained several labs through the years tried alot of different things the best(at least I think ) is to force fetch the dog but this can be a problem if you have not done this before there are some good videos out on the process . There is also a web site however I have not visited it in awhile but you can try "oakhillkennel.com" look at the section on Force-Fetching Without "The Collar" .As far as videos try tritronics force fetch." Re: Retriever question "The oakhillkennels "force fetch" without the collar is exactly what I used...Try to find a local retriever club, they will be some experienced training folks and most will do everything possible to help you.....there are also some very good Retriever training websites and forums where you can gain a lot of knowledge!!! Don't give up!!" Re: Retriever question "I will attest to the Tritronics Fetch and Hold series by Dobbs.  WAY MUCHO BETTER than the non collar method.  More understandable to the dog, and much less painful for all involved.  You spend maybe two days absolute max with ear pinch, bu" Re: Retriever question I had the same problem with my choc female and I paid to have her trined $1250.  When I noticed the problem I called the guy and he gave me a simple solution that worked great the dog was still a pup barely a year old the trainer told me at that age you still have to make it fun for the dog.  work on the obedience and retrieves with the dummys and wings for a while and when the session is over take a dead bird and play with the dog with the bird.  get the dog excited about the bird to where it is doing everything it can to get it from you.  Remember the retrieves and obedience will stay no matter what ultimately the dog wants aboive all else to please you it is in their nature and remember the rules af training a lab train a black with a lead a chocolate with a stick and a yellow with a 2x4 ;D Re: Retriever question "Arkbuck,
I think I disagree with what the guy told you, but it sounds like it worked, which after all is the main goal.  But in my opinion, the making it fun for the sole purpose of getting what you want ends when the basics are learned.  If " Re: Retriever question I agree with wade on the use of the collar that is the best way MOST of the time. But not all dogs are alike so what  I'm saying from the dogs I've trained (<25) dogs to run UKC hunt test not all dogs react the same to a collar on some dogs the effect is to strong I've found that you have to decide for yourself(are your dogs reactions)    

                             HRCH"CODY"
Re: Retriever question "Very good point..  with all my rambling, I failed to even mention let alone talk about each dog being different.  My dads dog, DOES NOT respond well to physical pressure, but responds amazingly to having things "explained" to him.  My dog sometimes needs a 2x4 and level 5 to even get his attention (so it seems I havent used over 4 yet), but other days, he will hop to - yessir yessir on 2 low, or a simple "ought ought".  So Cody, VERY GOOD POINT!!  Smack my hand for neglecting that.  I would hazzard a guess that every dog will be okay, and likely better than otherwise if a collar is used correctly, but used incoorectly, with poor timing and you can RUIN a dog in nothing flat.  And thats where paying attention to the dog comes in.  

How's everyone's seasons going so far?
Wade
" Re: Retriever question "Tried the teasing with the dead duck and made significant progress the first time.  I think with a little more teasing work and a trip to the lake (she'll do anything to get in the water), I can get her to consistantly pick up and bring back dead fowl.

If I go to electronics eventually, what can one expect to pay for a collar that will be adequate for a one dog trainer?

Thanks for the good advise." Re: Retriever question "You can get a refurb at collar clinic for around 230ish, or new for 500ish get a 100 lite 500 lite refurb or the new pro100 or 500.  You dont want the 200 that is only momentary on the levels and a few contants.  you want all constant level choices and fewer or none momentary.  You can always do mementary your self.
Check out dobbs and lardy, youll gain a whole new appreciatioon for the e collar
Wade
Wade" Some info for those of you needing a lathe "I will admit I don't know how good it is, but Harbor Frieght has their wood lathe on sale for $79.00.  Doesn't include stand, but you don't really need one.  Just thought someone may be able to use this info." Re: Some info for those of you needing a lathe "Ive seen em... they are cheap, but and there is always a but... if you are begining and dont even know if yould like it and know no one with a lathe to try it...  79.00 isnt too bad to waste if you dont like it.  Plus a 9.99 set of Harbors lathe tools and youll be able to get by.  Yes most of HFs machines are cheaper, and no they arent top quality, but Ive been putting their 269.00 12x36 through the paces since april and beside replacing the belt once and having to take the speed adjust apart because I for got to grease it occasionally, I havent had a problem - operationally.  I isnt exactly in line, so drilling is a bit interesting, but if youre using a mandrel it doesnt matter.  They are not the big dollar high quality lathes, but they can get you by.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Wade
" Have a look at these.... Take a look at this link.  http://community-2.webtv.net/GloriaSB/DUCKCALLS/

It takes you to THE BENNETT DUCK CALL COLLECTION & what an awesome collection it is!  :o :o Re: Have a look at these.... Bad link :o Re: Have a look at these.... "James has an AWESOME collection.

I've only met him through the Duck Calling message forum at SDH (he is one of the moderators along with Brian Watkins), but he seems to be a very nice guy with an incredible passion for duck calls.  If you have a question about an old call, he's a good guy to ask.  Chances are, he's met the callmaker (or at least a relative).

I think I remember that his picture was in the last CCAA newsletter." Re: Have a look at these....
[quote author=Big_Iron link=board=duckcalling&num=1035286529&start=0#1 date=10/22/02 at 10:25:25]
Bad link
[/quote]

I just clicked through from here with no problem.  Maybe the site was down when you tried it.  Give it another go - it's WELL worth a look. Another ? about Arkansas style I have made me a jig over the week end &